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Machine Shop Practice: Making Custom Metal Hardware For Basses

Hi Bruce, a very nice overview of machines!

When I was in high school I took a full year of "metals shop" and it was a tremendous introduction to all of these machines. Students were required to set up tooling and perform operations on all the machines, including cutting threads on a back geared lathe. Stick and oxyacetylene welding got thrown in, too.

One of the machines we were required to use was a horizontal shaper. I don't see them mentioned very often, and wondered if you have one in your shop. I still remember how mesmerizing it was to see it make passes across the work, producing a very nice flat surface.

Hey Rudy;

Yes! Metal shapers are classic old-time machines that pre-dated milling machines. Of course I've always wanted one for my collection. I finally found one (or maybe it found me?) a few years ago. A good friend of mine knew the owner of an old machine shop that was closing down, getting rid of the machinery. He pointed to an old machine in a dark corner, and asked my friend if he knew anyone who wanted a really old machine. He didn't want to send it to the scrapyard......

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It's a small size Rhodes shaper from 1916. A real little historic beauty of a machine.

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It's kinda filthy, but it's actually in nice condition. It appears to be fully functional, nothing obviously broken or missing. The machine shop had been using it to cut keyways in gear hubs. All it really needs is to be cleaned up and have a motor and belt drive hooked up to it.

Unfortunately, it's in line behind a bunch of other cool old machines awaiting my time. But it has a safe home here. Saved from the scrapyard.

There's a bigger discussion and more pictures of the Rhodes Shaper over on my Secret Underground Lab thread, a few years back.
 
That looks like a nice old machine you've got there, good luck with getting it running.

Shapers really went out of fashion long ago when universal milling machines made them largely obsolete. They still have their uses though, such as cutting serrated surfaces, or as in the example above, being able to cut keyways in gears, pulleys, hubs etc with just a cheap single point tool; a job you can otherwise only do with a press and an expensive broach.

We had a couple of shapers in high school- Elliots maybe- and I think I only used one once there, but never in the few years I worked in machine shops after that. If I had more space I wouldn't mind having one around today though.
 
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A quick overview of metal lathes:

Metal lathes are machines made for making round metal parts. I assume that you already knew that. In electric bass hardware, we use them for making parts like bushings, ferrules, strap buttons, Fender-style barrel bridge saddles, etc. You can also make many of those parts without a metal lathe, using drill presses and files. Slowly, but it works for custom parts. If you have a milling machine, but can't afford a metal lathe, you can do lathe jobs on a mill using a small rotary table. I'll show you that.

However, if you are serious about building up a small machine shop capability, a decent small metal lathe is a must. Along with a small milling machine. With those two machines, you can make almost anything.

There are mini-size benchtop lathes available, which are made for small hobby-size work. Bass-Babe showed her Unimat, which is a high quality hobby size metal lathe. You can also get cheaper grade mini-metal lathes from Harbor Freight, etc. You can certainly make parts like strap buttons and ferrules on these mini-lathes, but it's slow. They don't have the horsepower and cast iron. Peeling metal requires horsepower and cast iron.

Here's my main small metal lathe: A Logan model 1940 from the 1970's.

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I bought this Logan in 1990 from a guy who restores machines. With most of the accessories, all cleaned up and tuned up, for $1600. It was my first "real" metal lathe, and it has served me well for 33 years.

It's 11" swing, a 4' bed, about 5' overall. It weighs about 600 lbs, without the custom base bench. The motor is 1/2 HP, runs on 120V. Quick change gearbox for threading, power longitudinal and cross feeds. I have it outfitted with a spindle nose that takes standard 5C collets, and a lever-type collet closer. I also have 3-jaw and 4-jaw chucks and a faceplate to fit it, although I rarely use them these days. I have the aftermarket turret tailstock assembly, the standard tailstock, and an aftermarket lever cross slide. This is an all-purpose small metal lathe, often called an Engine Lathe, capable of doing most small lathe jobs.

The term 11" swing means that you can mount a workpiece up to 11" diameter on it, and it will clear over the ways. However, at that radius, this lathe only has enough torque to make light skim cuts. With 1/2 HP, this lathe is realistically best suited for work up to 2" diameter. I use it only for parts 1" diameter and smaller. But that's almost all bass hardware.

If you are looking to buy a metal lathe for your small/home shop, I highly recommend these Logans. They aren't real fancy, but they are workhorses. Lots of them available on the used market. I frequently see Logans on the LA Craigslist for $500 to $1500. They are easy to work on, and you can still buy parts for them. A company called Logan Actuator sells all the major replacement parts. And there are aftermarket accessories made specifically to fit Logans.

Bigger lathes:

The Logan was my only lathe for a long time, but now I have a few others. Bigger and smaller. My main big lathe is this LeBlond Regal 17 from 1949. It's 17" swing, 6' long, 3 HP, 3400 lbs. This is obviously more than you need for making parts for basses. I have it so I can do larger machining jobs, such as making up parts to rebuild other machines.

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However, I do use the Regal 17 for some bass part jobs. Yesterday, I was roughing out a batch of stainless spoke wheel heads for truss rods. The reason is horsepower and cast iron. The Regal 17 can peel off stainless at 5 times the rate of the Logan. Where the Logan was groaning peeling off 0.010" per pass, the Regal was cutting 0.050" per pass, and not even breathing hard. If the part were more rigid, I could have cut 0.100" per pass. That's what bigger lathes are for: Faster metal removal; less time.

When we get into making some round parts in this thread, you'll see me using both the Logan and the Regal 17. The Logan does most of the basic drilling and facing of bass parts; the Regal does the heavy metal removal to save time.

That's enough about lathes for the moment. Let's get into some metalworking!
 
I mostly liked that you called it your "small lathe"

Well, in the world of machine shops, metal lathes under 6" swing are considered "Hobby" size, 7" to 12" lathes are Small, 13" to 19" are Medium, 20" and over are Large. My two Logans are 11", which is Small. My two LeBlonds are 13" and 17", which is Medium.
 
Yeah... my dreams of making my own hardware are taking a beating, looking at all this beautiful, expensive, heavy machinery...

Hopefully moving this summer and *really* hoping there is a workshop area for me wherever we land...

If you specifically want to get into making bass hardware, and are limited in money and space, I recommend that you buy one of the small mill/drill type milling machines, like I described above. You can do some lathe work in a mill by putting parts in the spindle chuck and clamping a tool bit in the vise. If you can only get one machine, get the milling machine first. That will be more useful making parts for your basses.
 
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Aside from the mill/drill option, a copy of South Bend's classic "How to run a Lathe" will provide you with ways to use a lathe for limited milling and drilling operations if it's the only tool you have afforded yet. That does tend to involve things many modern folks scurry away from like 4-jaw independent chucks...and it's slower than having other tools.

Not to be macabre, but a surviving spouse (or offspring selling the house of departed parents) with a hobby machine shop in the basement/garage can be a very reasonable-cost source of decent vintage machine tools. Scout out your local rigging company so you know who to call to get heavy stuff moved safely. Too often it ends up at the junkyard.

Forgot - let real estate agents know you could help them get "that darn machinery" out of the house they are sure it's an impediment to sale on, and you may find it easier to connect with the stuff once it's considered "disposable and inconvenient" rather than "you vultures are trying to get dad's tools" but _before_ it's hauled off for junk. I have a very nice Morso miter chopper missing one expensive blade (the other one works fine for non-frame work) which I got for no money, because I was willing to come extract it from a basement (myself, by taking it down to parts I could move) - that one, I happened to spot on craigslist where they happened to post it. But real estate agents do seem to think a basement machine shop is a value negative, rather than a value-add.
 
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Sorry to intrude on this discussion, but I have a question.

Have you ever consider milling hardware from bell bronze? Would it even be worth the effort?

Bell bronze is an alloy in the brass family, with a higher amount of tin in the mix. It's tougher to machine than brass, but not as tough as, like, stainless steel. I've machined other bronzes, but not Bell Bronze specifically. I don't think machining it would be a big problem.

There are many different high strength alloys of bronze available. I'm not sure which one is Bell Bronze. They are all expensive.

What's your reason for wanting it?
 
Bell bronze is an alloy in the brass family, with a higher amount of tin in the mix. It's tougher to machine than brass, but not as tough as, like, stainless steel. I've machined other bronzes, but not Bell Bronze specifically. I don't think machining it would be a big problem.

There are many different high strength alloys of bronze available. I'm not sure which one is Bell Bronze. They are all expensive.

What's your reason for wanting it?

No real reason, I was reading this thread and was just intrigued by a weird thought, I'm always having weird ideas, but then normal is boring. :) I half looked online for bell bronze but nobody seems to sell the proper alloy, as all the bronze I saw on line for sale had other metals in it besides the 78% copper and 22% tin. You would have to cast it yourself or find someone to cast the proper alloy for you, then mill down a rough cast ingot. That would be a ton of work.

I just thought since the Bell Bronze alloy was formulated for it's resonance that it could be looked upon as somehow better than other alloys not specially formulated resonance.
 
I just thought since the Bell Bronze alloy was formulated for it's resonance (...)
Aha! Tone Bronze! :roflmao:

But seriously, I don't think it will have any distinct advantage for EBG hardware. Assuming it is favourable for Bells, that only means it's optimised for Bell shapes. When machined into bass nuts and bridges, the Bell Bronze won't sing like it does when made into a Bell shape. It's an interesting idea, but I'd personally not worry about it.
 
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Aha! Tone Bronze! :roflmao:

But seriously, I don't think it will have any distinct advantage for EBG hardware. Assuming it is favourable for Bells, that only means it's optimised for Bell shapes. Machined into bass nuts and bridges, the Bell Bronze won't sing like it does when made into a Bell shape. It's an interesting idea, but I'd personally not worry about it.

Yes. And you really don't want your metal parts to have a ringing resonance.......at one particular note.
 
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