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Magnets! Neodymium vs AlNiCo vs Ceramic-Ferrite

What is your favorite tone magnet?

  • AlNiCo

    Votes: 40 26.0%

  • Ceramic-Ferrite

    Votes: 18 11.7%

  • Neodymium

    Votes: 53 34.4%

  • Beets

    Votes: 43 27.9%
  • Total voters
    154
  • Poll closed .
#141
MR PC said:
I wonder what kind of magnet my Berg NV115 has...I doubt it's a neo, cab weighs 50 or so lbs. I've been running it with my WW Ultra, 800 watts at 8 ohms. It performs flawlessly, sounds great when I push on it, I don't perceive any freq loss.
Click to expand...

That is something only Jim could answer unless someone has pulled one who knows well the differences. By the way the specs I can find call out for 400 watt power handling on the cab and uses a mid driver to take over any response loss from the 15"'s design.
 
#142
I have a MB 104HF cab with B&C NEO speakers and they are very efficient with impressive specs. My BBC Tank 1212 has 2-12 Fatal NEO speakers and it's been more efficient the the B&C speakers. In my opinion, NEO works and is possible the new standard?
 
#143
I have tried early versions of Eminence delta lite 15" speakers and at higher volumes they heated up and sound started to deteriorate. I bought 2 GK112-2 neo cabs. They were ok but not great. About 4 years ago I bought 2 Eminence Kappalite 3012HO Speakers to put in them. I was shocked at the huge difference in volume, tone and punch. The GK's were rated at 300 watts RMS while the Kappalite is 400 watts RMS. I took it to an outdoors Jam my Genz Benz 600 Streamliner not expecting just a whole lot. Even our guitarist looked at the 2 12" cabs, smeared and walked away obviously not impressed. We played about 2 hours or so and boy did do well. The drummer sitting 5' to my left said he could feel the concussion from it. Of course it is not the lowest of lows but decent. Nice smooth highs and mids
 
#144
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#146
kringle77 said:
I think that Thisbass has got a lot of what I'm trying to get at. A driver with more thd is probably going to be more pleasing to most players. So designers, let's get cracking!
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Who thinks driver developers in the MI market haven't grasped this concept? It's been done maybe 40 years ago and continues to be part of driver design today... at least for some designers. Celestion is one manufacturer who has a good track record in this department.
 
#147
And I think if a neo speaker would have worked in the Berg, he would of used one. The 400 watt power rating is certainly conservative..At some outdoor festivals I've pushed it pretty hard at times with 800 watts, with no problems. So I'm not convinced that ceramic has any limitations compared to Neo in the real world when a box is well designed. I haven't pushed the Subway 115 as hard as that yet, probably won't because as a stand alone it doesn't cover the larger stage the way the Barg does maybe because of that mid driver in the Berg.
 
#148
I'm not here to convince anyone, I only offer actual design experience. It is up to the reader to take what they want to hear ;). Power ratings on cabs are useless without the frequency, duty cycle and duration, but are rarely "conservative". If you have had no troubles I sincerely hope this continues.
 
#149
B-string said:
One of the advantages of NEO material is higher power handling, extended excursion with less frequency response loss. That is the wall hit with ceramic or Alnico
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It depends on the designer, e.g. if you look at these two 15" drivers from Oberton you won't see much difference between these two performance / spec wise, the biggest difference is the weight and the price. One is ceramic the other neodymium Invalid Link Removed and Invalid Link Removed
 
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#150
Maybe a more pertinent poll question is:

What sounds better?
A. A bass player who spends time worrying about the metallic composition of the magnets in his/her speaker drivers
B. A bass player who spends time practicing instead of reading threads about the metallic composition of the magnets in his/her speaker drivers
C. A bass player who now worries that since you're reading this, you're not in one of those as described in choice "B" and thus has become distracted and is losing confidence in competing for gigs against bassist who are not reading this
D. A bass player who can correctly pronounce "Neodymium"

Steve
 
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#152
ThisBass said:
[FOH sound engineer on]
fortunatelly most players don't know the effect of 40-50Hz, and fortinatelly they can't get it out of "crappy" MI caps.
[FOH sound engineer off]
Click to expand...


A few weeks back I was talking with a guy who's become a regular engineer for us, and we were discussing why my rig played so well with the house, towards the end I said "and I'm HPFing right around 32hz..." and he said "well, that wouldn't get through the FOH anyway...I'm HPFing you around 40zh"...and then I pointed out that I'm not doing it on the DI, he gets the full range and I do it at the amp stage... he laughed and said 'yep...we've both got this room pretty well covered."

Number of players in the dozens who have used my rig and noticed that I filter: zero.
 
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#153
BurningSkies said:
Before I get to pickling season, we have to get through strawberry jam making season. Then there's the cherry season where I can bourbon soaked or maraschino liquor soaked cherries.
Click to expand...

Wait, I'm sorry, bourbon soaked cherries? Man, I just made a honey jack (mead strengthened by fractal freezing) with them - also pretty darn good. Also, I didn't know there was a specific maraschino liquor, it makes sense though given title "maraschino cherries".

Also, I've made some killer sauerkraut with a bottle of vinegar, salt, water, a cabbage, some garlic and dried peppers. Maybe we should start a pickling thread, since the only places I've found info. for pickling were from all these hippy organic types that I just can't bother with.

agedhorse said:
There is another advantage to Neo motors in speakers. Because of the placement of the magnetic material inside the gap rather in a ring around the gap, the inductance (static and dynamic) is typically lower which can be used as an advantage when it comes to options for midrange voicing. This is something (many)designers have wanted for years.
Click to expand...

This makes sense, lower voice coil inductance can raise the frequency response a bit before a natural cutoff. As you've said in later posts there are other factors as well. I also liked the post where you mentioned changing the shape of a ceramic magnet to better use its features.
 
#154
pie_man_25 said:
Wait, I'm sorry, bourbon soaked cherries? Man, I just made a honey jack (mead strengthened by fractal freezing) with them - also pretty darn good. Also, I didn't know there was a specific maraschino liquor, it makes sense though given title "maraschino cherries".

Also, I've made some killer sauerkraut with a bottle of vinegar, salt, water, a cabbage, some garlic and dried peppers. Maybe we should start a pickling thread, since the only places I've found info. for pickling were from all these hippy organic types that I just can't bother with.



This makes sense, lower voice coil inductance can raise the frequency response a bit before a natural cutoff. As you've said in later posts there are other factors as well. I also liked the post where you mentioned changing the shape of a ceramic magnet to better use its features.
Click to expand...


Yeah, when cherry season hits here and they're cheap, I end up buying bunches of the kinds available...bright red sour cherries, the darker standard 'bing' cherries and then the yellow/red rainier or 'queen anne' cherries. I make a couple different simple syrups, one that's a bit more dark and strong with damerara sugar that's spiced with clove, cinnamon, star anise, allspice, etc. and then one that's lighter and a bit less spiced. The more spiced goes in a roughly 50/50 with bourbon and the pitted cherries then I can them. The other goes with the marachino. Since booze will leach color from fruit though, I also make 'coloring agent' by making a really reduced tea with hibiscus to help them retain at least some of their color for those, some add food coloring or use other natural reds like some beet juice.

The yellow bourbon/spiced ones lose their red but remain mostly yellow and end up like this:

Invalid Link Removed

Then the sour maraschinos look like this:

Invalid Link Removed

You'll note I canned them with stems attached...for the fancy factor. There are also pits in the bottom of the jar, although I should have cracked them. One of the reasons that real marachinos have an almost almond flavor is that they liquor is made with the cracked pits which gives the almond vibe.

The other winner is the 3-cherry/strawberry/raspberry jam I make.


-----
I really feel like the the advent of neodymium for speakers gives the speaker designer more leeway to produce a variety of products that push previous limits if they want because the flux per weight is stronger, therefore can be 'applied' in ways that wasn't possible before.
 
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#156
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#159
I'm a guitarist that have moved to fewer strings and lower Hz

In the world of guitars I have yet to find neo speaker cabs&combos that can even remotely touch the sound quality of my fav speakers (whether they be ceramic or AlNiCo). I'm very stern about this.. I thoroughly dislike all neo-speakers I've come across..

… which is why it is kinda hard to come to terms with how&why I feel so differently about neo speakers in bass cabs. For instance, only yesterday I played a Bergantino cabinet (3x10 neo) that I totally loved. That's not to say I don't like «old-world» speakers.

I perhaps should note that I roll of trebs in pretty much all bass set-ups.. I really don't like much frequency above 4-4,5 kHz for bass. I don't want to compete with guitars in the mix, rather I prefer to occupy the lower freq range. Once I roll off top-end I seem to remove the stuff I dislike about neo.. I'm not sure wether this translates to real world measurable values or if it's just due to figment of preconceived notions haha
 
#160
A skilled transducer designer can design with any magnet material and achieve the desired tone and feel for the most part. I have in fact designed ceramic and Neo models that were darn near identical in performance (other than weight).
 
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