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Magnets! Neodymium vs AlNiCo vs Ceramic-Ferrite

What is your favorite tone magnet?

  • AlNiCo

    Votes: 40 26.0%

  • Ceramic-Ferrite

    Votes: 18 11.7%

  • Neodymium

    Votes: 53 34.4%

  • Beets

    Votes: 43 27.9%
  • Total voters
    154
  • Poll closed .
#102
Neodymium sounds much better to me. If I tried to haul cabinets with ferrite magnets to a gig, I wouldn't be playing bass, I'd be in the emergency room getting back surgery, and I hate the beeping of all that medical equipment. Being on stage with cabinets I can haul, playing with a good band, sounds so much better. Even the audience would notice the difference - "hey, don't you guys have a bass player?"
 
#104
Dude, and, dudettes:
Magnetic materials are just a means to an end here. Make a piston move.

Some lighter materials have a stronger magnetic field and can do Job X with less material.
Other materials have less magnetic field, and, take more to do Job X.
Doesn't matter which one you pick, they function the same.
Just: A weighs more than B.

I guess I could be wrong, but, this is the way several different speaker manufacturers have explained this to me.

Again tho,
I'm buying for whomsoever can win the aforementioned double blind test.
 
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#105
Old Garage-Bander said:
Isn't there a point of diminishing returns for how low a cab can go?
At what point is low too low?
Click to expand...

Well, if I recall, every time you drop an octave your required excursion to maintain the same volume would be multiplied by four. Way back in the day people relied on basically high-passing their amps because they didn't have the power or excursion necessary for these low notes - or they'd use a lot of speakers, whatever they could get away with. Now we do have the power and excursion, and neodymium is bringing this even further and helping to keep the weight down. So it used to be a matter of practicality, but now it's a matter of personal taste and affordability.
 
Last edited:
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#106
"
  • What differences will I hear between ceramic, alnico, and neodymium magnets?
    Each material, of course, has different magnetic properties and cost. Neodymium seems to be the wave of the future, especially with reduced weight and overall costs coming down. It produces the most magnetic flux per ounce, making it ideal for use in multiple speaker cabinets to maintain performance while reducing handling and shipping weight. Alnico is a composite of aluminum, nickel, and cobalt. It is the most rare and most expensive. Alnico is commonly thought to produce the most "Vintage" tone and has a reputation for sounding compressed. Ceramic is the cheapest and most common material. If you are comparing speakers that have the same magnetic flux, but generated from different magnet compositions, you probably won't notice a difference in tonality. Differences in tonality that are often attributed to the magnet material probably have more to do with the positioning of the magnet and resultant differences in magnetic flux within the motor structure. There in lies the mojo!"
  • [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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#107
Linnin said:
What do you know? Have you owned and played them all? Which one is you favorite?
Click to expand...

1) Nothing.

2) Yup.

3) I don't play favorites, everything can be improved on. New lightweight crap beats old heavy crap pretty much every time in my world though.
 
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#109
To me much of this discussion parallels the 'Class D v. traditional' thing that happens here on TB.

For years it was inevitable that someone (or many someones) would bring up the Markbass Little Mark 2 as an example of how Class D amps didn't sound the same and/or did sound the same or whatever. Which is amusing given that it was a class AB amp. A great example of people assuming that an amp was something it wasn't and then attributing how they heard it to a faulty identification.
 
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#111
My bass cabinets are hybrid: Neo woofer/ceramic mid driver.

I have various pickups with neo, ceramic and alnico magnets. I can't compare because each is an entirely different design.

Where the weight advantage of neo magnets really pays off is in things like phones, headphones and laptop computers.
 
#113
Linnin said:
"
  • What differences will I hear between ceramic, alnico, and neodymium magnets?
    Each material, of course, has different magnetic properties and cost. Neodymium seems to be the wave of the future, especially with reduced weight and overall costs coming down. It produces the most magnetic flux per ounce, making it ideal for use in multiple speaker cabinets to maintain performance while reducing handling and shipping weight. Alnico is a composite of aluminum, nickel, and cobalt. It is the most rare and most expensive. Alnico is commonly thought to produce the most "Vintage" tone and has a reputation for sounding compressed. Ceramic is the cheapest and most common material. If you are comparing speakers that have the same magnetic flux, but generated from different magnet compositions, you probably won't notice a difference in tonality. Differences in tonality that are often attributed to the magnet material probably have more to do with the positioning of the magnet and resultant differences in magnetic flux within the motor structure. There in lies the mojo!"
  • [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...
For accuracy's sake, let's at least get the composition of Alnico correct... Alnico is generally over 50% iron in addition to the alloy elements. If guitarists knew the truth, they wouldn't be so quick to tout the pureness of their beloved Alnico as Aluminum, Nickel and Cobalt. ;)
 
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#114
wcriley said:
I guess I'll just have to throw them in the jar with some eggs and vinegar, then.
Click to expand...

I had never seen red pickled eggs until I got to Pennsylvania. An old girlfriend of mine grew up in coal country. The first time I saw a jar full of those pink/red eggs, looking much like something an alien might have laid.

I favor neo-magnet pickups these days too. In fact, I'm waiting for enough scratch to buy another set of FD-3's for a replacement of the ol' Voodoo with Barts.
 
#115
Jay2U said:
I totally agree on the Neodymium, but...
A magnet is not just a magnet. Magnets with more field strength in a smaller volume give the designer more freedom to optimize.
Click to expand...
Correct. The magnetic field is a function of the magnet strength as well as the pole geometries, which can affect the distribution of field across (through) and around the gap. There are designs that take advantage of this to enhance certain speaker performance properties. It is also possible to get very close to a ceramic design using the same target goals.

The properties can be very close, but tough to make identical because the loss mechanisms are somewhat different between the materials (ie. linearity, hysteresis, etc) but most of the differences are due to designers taking advantage of the new geometries in order to do things that they have wanted to do but couldn't with ceramics.
 
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#116
BurningSkies said:
I had never seen red pickled eggs until I got to Pennsylvania. An old girlfriend of mine grew up in coal country. The first time I saw a jar full of those pink/red eggs, looking much like something an alien might have laid.
Click to expand...

Good way to preserve food without refrigeration. Pretty tasty too, especially with peppers, onions and garlic ;)
 
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#117
Since the inductance of a Neo driver has the potential to be lower than that of a ceramic-ferrite or AlNiCo driver, does this mean that a Neo driver car react to transients quicker than a ceramic-ferrite/AlNiCo one? I remember reading that the inductance of a driver is inversely proportional to the speed that the driver can react to transients.
 
#119
agedhorse said:
Good way to preserve food without refrigeration. Pretty tasty too, especially with peppers, onions and garlic ;)
Click to expand...

I've never done eggs or beets. I actually do pickle every summer, cucumbers, onions, cauliflower, etc. Always spicy, with loads of garlic and I do a sweet and a 'dill'. One of my many culinary trips.
 
#120
cfsporn said:
Since the inductance of a Neo driver has the potential to be lower than that of a ceramic-ferrite or AlNiCo driver, does this mean that a Neo driver car react to transients quicker than a ceramic-ferrite/AlNiCo one? I remember reading that the inductance of a driver is inversely proportional to the speed that the driver can react to transients.
Click to expand...

Not "quicker" but it's possible to design a driver with better high end extension if that's what you are going for. Inductance isn't the only factor in HF extension, it is one of the terms that makes up the rolloff slope. There are also mechanical terms that greatly contribute to HF rolloff.

If you look at the rolloff part of the curve, there will be a slope(s) that will be first, second third (etc.) order in combination as each of the factors begin to contribute. The degree of the slope is based on the order of each contribution, the order is (generally) an exponential function... because of the squared term in the power equation. Switching between voltage and power when describing the slopes is the reason for 3dB/octave power rolloff (1/2-power) being the "same" as 6dB/octave voltage rolloff (1/2-voltage) when looking at levels, the units must be correctly defined. This means that -6dB/octave voltage rolloff will be the same as 6dB/octave power rolloff even though the voltages will not be the same 6db voltage is 1/2 the voltage but 1/4 the power.

So, you will see the rolloff curve steepening as frequency increases as each to the limiting terms becomes significant, going from (IIRC) 3dB/octave (power) to as high as 24dB/octave (power) depending on the mechanisms at play.
 
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