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Man shot reaching for license.
- Thread starter 3506string
- Start date
Put a police uniform on and go into the worst areas of your city and see how free of fear you are.
"All we need to do is cooperate and not become belligerent when there's no reason- when asked for a license, hand it to them, or have it ready before they get to the window but don't make them think they'll be shot. Why this one drew his gun so early, I don't know. Hard to say- he may have wanted attention- seems to work for criminals.
I would bet that if someone has a bad attitude about cops is going to make it known if they're pulled over more often than necessary. I don't know your experiences, but I have worked in retail for a long time, sometimes in malls. The BS the cops have to deal with makes me wonder why anyone would want to be one. Being pissed and spat on, having feces thrown at them, attacked, run over, shot, stabbed and for what? So they can get off with an incredibly light sentence? Arresting the same dirtbags repeatedly would piss me off, too."
No doubt we live in a very violent society in the US, and the job of a police officer is incredibly difficult under those circumstances, but your point about "all we have to do is cooperate" rings very hollow if you are black - we have a very long history of unprovoked violence and oppression directed at the African-American community. Many African American males have had unprovoked hassles from cops. It is a pattern and there is simply no denying that. There is no trust of the police in many black neighborhoods and that lack of trust is justified given our history and current events. Police have to work very hard in building trust in those communities, and it is not easy at all, but if you are not ready for that challenge you should not be a police officer. If a police officer oversteps his/her bounds, he/she must be held accountable or trust in the police is diminished. With great power comes great responsibility.
I would bet that if someone has a bad attitude about cops is going to make it known if they're pulled over more often than necessary. I don't know your experiences, but I have worked in retail for a long time, sometimes in malls. The BS the cops have to deal with makes me wonder why anyone would want to be one. Being pissed and spat on, having feces thrown at them, attacked, run over, shot, stabbed and for what? So they can get off with an incredibly light sentence? Arresting the same dirtbags repeatedly would piss me off, too."
No doubt we live in a very violent society in the US, and the job of a police officer is incredibly difficult under those circumstances, but your point about "all we have to do is cooperate" rings very hollow if you are black - we have a very long history of unprovoked violence and oppression directed at the African-American community. Many African American males have had unprovoked hassles from cops. It is a pattern and there is simply no denying that. There is no trust of the police in many black neighborhoods and that lack of trust is justified given our history and current events. Police have to work very hard in building trust in those communities, and it is not easy at all, but if you are not ready for that challenge you should not be a police officer. If a police officer oversteps his/her bounds, he/she must be held accountable or trust in the police is diminished. With great power comes great responsibility.
What he'll be charged with is up to the DA. If the DA is a spineless POS, the people won't stand for it. MKE has a spineless POS for a DA and I hope he's replaced, but it's an elected position, so it will take a bit of time but the voters here don't seem to understand that it's the DA's office who charges people and agrees to the plea bargains that cause so many criminals to be released, free to commit more murders, etc. This is even more of a problem when they don't have the balls to try a cop and it makes some of them think they can get away with anything.
This situation may be similar to a hunter who starts shaking and firing as soon as they see a buck or anything else that's moving. Then again, it did happen in The South. Either way, he shot Jones in the back- hardly an imminent threat.
Here's a comment from policestate.com- "In a somewhat surprising display of accountability, the South Carolina State Police fired Sean Groubert within a week of the shooting. He was also charged with “assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature,” a charge that could lead to up to 20 years in prison if convicted.".
Unless he has a sympathetic jury, he won't get off without harsh penalty. Then, there's the treatment former cops receive in prison- could be a rough time. If he isn't convicted, this will not/should not go away quietly.
I still think Jones should have waited until the trooper was in front of him and could see what he was doing, before entering his truck.
This is an example of how dangerous police work can be-
I didn't mean we should just lay down and let them do whatever they want, but resisting or making sudden movements when a cop has their gun drawn isn't a great idea.
You're right and the fact that it happens frequently doesn't make it OK but to quote a former neighbor, "Black people fall all over themselves trying to screw each other and when someone who wants to help comes along, they aren't trusted, either". My former neighbor is Black, BTW. However, and it definitely varies by location, a lot of the people who are pulled over in MKE are arrested and charged with something that WASN'T a traffic offense.
Re: police not being trusted- "snitches get stitches" is real in MKE and it's very common, but when things are bad enough, the people DO call the police and cooperate. They're also organizing and trying to get the people to stop resorting to vioence, in the areas where shootings are most frequent.
Here's another example of what's going on here; pay attention to the comment about the shooting that occurred 15 minutes after another one, just three blocks away-
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This is from the last two paragraphs in the link- "
"It's time for us to stop talking about what somebody else is doing from a different race," Hunt said. "You had 31 children that have been shot this year, might be even a little bit more. Not one was shot by a white person, not one was shot by a white police officer."
"We need to start addressing what we're doing because we're killing one another," he said.".
Cops who act like they're THE MAN will eventually be weeded out, in some way. Often, they burn out or do something really stupid. Others let their guard down and are injured or killed. Some end up doing something illegal or become alcoholics. If they're bad enough, other officers will make it hard for them to continue because they're affected by the bad cops, too. Bad cops, bad people- neither should get away with anything but when some on both sides refuse to point out who's causing trouble, it takes time.
I have a few police officers in my direct family most have choosen the same vocation as their fathers and grandfathers. I think we all agree that the goal of the police is to make the @$#%up world we live in a better place. Being such a cowboy and so triggerhappy is not really helping.
I may not live in the US and views probably differ per nation in this world. But this for me is another reason why the whole 2nd amendment (right?) is a bad idea. That is a whole different subject, but I believe it's closely related to this.
I may not live in the US and views probably differ per nation in this world. But this for me is another reason why the whole 2nd amendment (right?) is a bad idea. That is a whole different subject, but I believe it's closely related to this.
A little fear is a good thing, Police officers are trained to stay composed and alert during stressful situations, obviously this officer was a bit skitish and quick to the trigger. If you cant handle the pressure you have no business being in that kind of work, its not for everyone.
Which is really the crux of this particular biscuit, the elephant in this particular room.
I first heard about it as a teen in the (very) early 70's when I watched an interview on PBS with Robert Lee Maupin AKA Robert Beck AKA Iceberg Slim, where he discussed at length the rampant white fear of a black planet. This idea was later Exploited by Public Enemy when they used a shortened version of this statement as a title for one of their most popular recorded works.
The concept was relevant back then and is even more so today in an era where info (inaccurate or otherwise), can be "pushed" to viral status and go worldwide in a matter of hours.
Until white folks can admit and work through this fear, young black men will continue to be disproportionately represented in statistics describing death by cop and percentage of prison populations, and given the current trends it won't be long before young brown men will be near the top of that same disturbing statistical universe.
I used to suffer from this fear until I joined the USMC and learned that there are no blacks, whites, or browns in the Corps. We were all green and that concept set the tone for the rest of my life.
We are all people ya'll, which means we are capable of loving one another. So what say we all let go of our fears and just get in the pit and try to love someone?
This may be true in the Corps, but in everyday life, people teach their chidren differently. In the Corps, you're trained to work together as a team, for the success of the mission and the survival of the troops. In the rest of the World, people are taught to be far more selfish and that people who are different, are probably bad or st least, not as good. Obviously and fortunately, this isn't universally true. People of all walks of life help each other every minute of every day but they also commit the most heinous acts, again, every minute of every day. The beheading in Oklahoma is a good example.
The worst thing about all of the White fear is that, while it is definitely possible to be targeted for being White, it's far less common than Black on Black crime and that was addressed in the JS Online link I posted. In Milwaukee, anyway. Shootings have gone through the roof, but the % of fatalities has dropped because the shooters are less accurate, apparently. Where Whites are more likely to be victimized is in property crimes and auto theft is up tremendously- so far in 2014, it's a jump of >3000 vehicles over last year because it's gang initiation time and lots of them were stolen by 12-15 year old kids.
As bad as all of this seems, I go into the middle of Milwaukee regularly and people who are total strangers are generally friendly. I was driving in LA in July and when the battery in my phone died and I lost GPS, I found myself in Downey, which is between East LA and Compton. I didn't like the looks of the crowd in front of the door at the Family Dollar, but the RiteAid seemed better. When I told the guy who helped me find the adapter I was trying to buy to get to my cousin's house, he said "Well, you don't need to be here!" and if it had been nighttime, I wouldn't have stopped. The incidents I heard about once I reached my destination will keep me from going there at ANY time. When I lived in MKE (what are now really bad areas), I lost a full toolbox, four car stereos, two cars were stolen, my friends' tools were stolen, someone tried to break into the house and someone shot out the driver's door window in my car with a BB/pellet. OTOH, I lost four bicycles in the suburb where I grew up, but I do know two of them were stolen by White guys. If it will happen, it will happen but it's not as bad as many people say but again, it varies by location.
I think a lot of it will depend on the area of town. I know a few people I work with who are VERY anti-law enforcement and hate them with a passion. They live in a part of town where they never have to deal with law enforcement. Their hatred is basically unfounded. My only encounter is my offramp, which is often a sobriety checkpoint. Be sober and have current tags and you'll get waved through.
The bad part of town is another story. Lots of cops. Lots of bullets being exchanged by both sides. Not good. I avoid that part of town entirely.
The bad part of town is another story. Lots of cops. Lots of bullets being exchanged by both sides. Not good. I avoid that part of town entirely.
Both. We have several who were MPs but others were in combat but I doubt this is the only place who hires former military.
The fact that we have a Constitutional Amendment for gun ownership aside, it still boils down to human behavior. Something inside of people makes them willing to kill another person and something inside of others makes them unable or unwilling to do this. Is it a defect? Is it conditioning? Is it curiosity? What causes some people to want to make the World a better place, while others couldn't care less?
This story and the video are very disturbing. This type of story leaves a lot of people thinking that police are out to shoot first and ask questions later. It's also led a lot of minority parents to have VERY uncomfortable conversations with their kids about how to conduct themselves during a stop by law enforcement. Why? Because those parents don't want their kids to get shot. I'm guessing this driver didn't have this conversation because of the speed with which he went for his wallet / drivers license.
I get the fact that law enforcement professionals are stressed to the point of paranoia. And depending on the municipality they serve, things might be very sedate or there could be a lot of crime. A high level of crime leads a lot of cops to think "Better them than me" and err on the side of shooting before someone has the opportunity to shoot the officer. I get that natural sense of self-preservation. But isn't this where training is supposed to get factored in to the professional conduct of a police officer's duties?
I think that more cameras, both body cams and dash cams, are going to lead to a lot more officers being restrained about their use of force. But I also think that in municipalities where the police are involved in a higher than average number of shooting, that there needs to be a greater degree of oversight and investigation. Shooting review boards seem to be siding with officers far more simply because the officer is alive and has had time to lawyer up and come up with a story that will make that shooting seem justified. And I think that these investigations may need to get escalated beyond a town or city police investigation. I'm talking about the state police or FBI or the Justice Department.
These police departments are being charged to "Protect & Serve". But when it comes to shootings involving officers they very often seem to be protecting and serving their own. And there are far more people feeling a lot like this.
I get the fact that law enforcement professionals are stressed to the point of paranoia. And depending on the municipality they serve, things might be very sedate or there could be a lot of crime. A high level of crime leads a lot of cops to think "Better them than me" and err on the side of shooting before someone has the opportunity to shoot the officer. I get that natural sense of self-preservation. But isn't this where training is supposed to get factored in to the professional conduct of a police officer's duties?
I think that more cameras, both body cams and dash cams, are going to lead to a lot more officers being restrained about their use of force. But I also think that in municipalities where the police are involved in a higher than average number of shooting, that there needs to be a greater degree of oversight and investigation. Shooting review boards seem to be siding with officers far more simply because the officer is alive and has had time to lawyer up and come up with a story that will make that shooting seem justified. And I think that these investigations may need to get escalated beyond a town or city police investigation. I'm talking about the state police or FBI or the Justice Department.
These police departments are being charged to "Protect & Serve". But when it comes to shootings involving officers they very often seem to be protecting and serving their own. And there are far more people feeling a lot like this.
Addressing the OP, I used to be a security guard, and my boss told us that if we ever had to shoot anyone, we should kill him so he there would be no testimony against us because if there were, we might lose. This cop lost his job, and was arrested because he failed to shoot straight enough to kill his victim. If the guy had not lived to say "why did you shoot me," the cop could have just said he had a reasonable fear because of the victim's sudden movement. Black folks would have been mad, but the cop would have gotten off and kept his job to boot.
The combination of the cop or dashboard camera, plus his terrible aim, sank this cop.
The combination of the cop or dashboard camera, plus his terrible aim, sank this cop.
