Marijuana Reform. (an interesting article.)

[Thorsoundcore]

As an ex habitual daily user of marijuana for 35 years I can honestly say that legalizing pot is the worst thing that can happen to our society. Zappa summed it up best when it said it makes people lazy and passive, exactly what some people who do not have the best interest in our country want. Be careful what you wish for!!

so legalizing marijuana is worse than anarchy??!
idk, i'm just saying when you think outside this marijuana debating box, there are alot worse things that could happen to our society than this. i don't really see how it is bad; it will create a whole new plethora of issues, but would you rather have some harmless issues or keep the crime rate at where it is now?? with people being raped, killed and robbed constantly? even if it was legalized, do you really think every one in this country, including the people who run it will be smoking it?? no.. alcohol is legal, but plenty of people don't drink. to each his own really;this is just my 2 cents.

 

[tZer]

Ya see, this is why most of these debates are lame sauce. If the selling point is, "oh yeah, these other legal things are also bad" it's not a good defense. I'm fairly neutral on this subject matter, but most of the offerings are pretty weak.

I have to agree with this assessment of that debate tactic. Simply pointing at other stuff and citing how it can be harmful doesn't speak to what I think is the root point - that anything one does that does not cause harm to anyone else shouldn't be prohibited.

The unfortunate thing about the fact that it's prohibited/illegal in so many places is that once anyone tries it (and yes, even good, honest, intelligent, upstanding people will try it) and discovers all the propaganda has been utter lies, it breaks down the legitimacy of the laws and the law makers.

The prohibition laws, in order to be effective, demand that people be lied to and counts on the hope that people don't decide to find out for themselves whether the propaganda surrounding why it's illegal is true. Once they do, it becomes plain to see that the emperor indeed has no clothes.

 

[spade2you]

The unfortunate thing about the fact that it's prohibited/illegal in so many places is that once anyone tries it (and yes, even good, honest, intelligent, upstanding people will try it) and discovers all the propaganda has been utter lies, it breaks down the legitimacy of the laws and the law makers.

As I stated earlier, both sides are lying to get their points across. Honestly, it's not that bad, but it's also not that good.

More or less, the strongest conviction of the pro-marijuana crowd is the desire for the government to make laws and deny them from making decisions they'd want to make. Doesn't matter if it's weed, speed limits, junk food, etc. How dare them........ It's ever so easy to put spins and twists on things if it's something we want. Guns are bad, right? People who like guns would think otherwise. The list can go on an on, but a majority of the hatred of these laws are because they're simply laws. I might agree that legalization might curb some use because the forbidden fruit is not nearly as sweet, but I can't say I think the US is a place where legalizing it is the best idea. Working in healthcare, there are a lot of unhealthy people. Do we really need more?

 

[tZer]

As I stated earlier, both sides are lying to get their points across. Honestly, it's not that bad, but it's also not that good.

Whether it's "good" shouldn't have to be argued at all. But propping up false "badness" to justify bad laws is inexcusable.

I could care less if anyone agrees with anyone else about it's perceived "goodness" - just like music, that's completely subjective. However, the "badness" that's been associated with it is very easily proven to be fiction.

Again - no one should have to prove a "good side". Once the veneer of 'evil' is proven to be utter bunk, the public should be allowed to decide for themselves whether or not it's good for them on an individual basis.

Did anyone have to prove tomatoes are good? No.

 

[spade2you]

Whether it's "good" shouldn't have to be argued at all. But propping up false "badness" to justify bad laws is inexcusable.

I could care less if anyone agrees with anyone else about it's perceived "goodness" - just like music, that's completely subjective. However, the "badness" that's been associated with it is very easily proven to be fiction.

Again - no one should have to prove a "good side". Once the veneer of 'evil' is proven to be utter bunk, the public should be allowed to decide for themselves whether or not it's good for them on an individual basis.

Did anyone have to prove tomatoes are good? No.

Again, the government is held to a different standard. With both parties lying, I am seeing that both sides don't really have much of a leg to stand on. Two wrongs don't make a right, although 4 rights make a left.

I'd agree that people should be allowed to make their own choices, but it's rare for altruism and their decisions aren't always in the best interest of society of themselves. If society always made the right choice, there'd be no need for laws.

 

[Jim Campbell]

That's how it is here, which I'm all for. Your own car as a public place tho? That's nonsense!

that's how the law is worded here.....driving is considered a privilege,not a right,and the cops need no probable cause to pull you over and search your car.....

 

[Jim Campbell]

If weed is legalized, they'll quickly find something else. You don't think they're already thinking about this?

....i'm not sure who "who" is,but it would be ludicrous to assume that legal pot would create a greater demand for other illegal drugs.....the demand is,and has been there for decades,and our streets have become battlegrounds......thefts are so common that the cops have no resources to even slow it's rate if increase,let alone curtail it......prisons are so full that offenders are released for lack of space.....as far as respect for the law,i'd bet more people have become disillusioned by the war on drugs than anything else

 

[spade2you]

....i'm not sure who "who" is,but it would be ludicrous to assume that legal pot would create a greater demand for other illegal drugs.....the demand is,and has been there for decades,and our streets have become battlegrounds......thefts are so common that the cops have no resources to even slow it's rate if increase,let alone curtail it......prisons are so full that offenders are released for lack of space.....as far as respect for the law,i'd bet more people have become disillusioned by the war on drugs than anything else

Once again, your understanding of criminals leads a lot to be desired. A big pro-marajuana fib is that legalizing it will put drug dealers out of business and actually reduce crime. Do you think they'll all try to get hired at Wal-Mart or something? Nope. They'll find other means. I'm no fortune teller, but the $ will be missed and other activities will increase. It's foolish to think they'll stop.

 

[iamdenialNJ]

I haven't read all of your guys' posts but they have all been very good at stating both point of view. I haven't put too much thought and debate into the subject despite personally feeling that marijuana needs to be lagalized. My friend has had lupus all his life and marijuana does help him with his disease and his appetite. His panrets let him smoke marijuana as do his doctors.

The thing that first came into my head is that the government doesn't want it to be legalized. If marijuana is legalized how would is be possible to control it?? It'd be impossible. Yes, the government will be able to grow it and tax the plant but millions and millions of people will be growing marijuana plants in their living rooms for their own personal use. The government would not make that much money on it. They would probably have to enforce it somehow and someway. As I said I haven't put too much thought into it (so don't bash me) but I think I bring up an interesting point.

 

[cassanova]

I think even before legalization happens on a federal level we will see federal law that puts legalization into the hands of the state. From there the states will legalize and regulate as they see fit. At least I think that would be the best option.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the law will correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the supremacy clause I'd think the fed govt would have to decriminalize it first before any state can trulu make it legal.

Something also tells me that if left up to the states, the overly conservative politicians in South would keep it criminalized. If the decision is left up to the states, it should be put on a state wide ballot and let the people vote on it.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Once again, your understanding of criminals leads a lot to be desired. A big pro-marajuana fib is that legalizing it will put drug dealers out of business and actually reduce crime. Do you think they'll all try to get hired at Wal-Mart or something? Nope. They'll find other means. I'm no fortune teller, but the $ will be missed and other activities will increase. It's foolish to think they'll stop.

the other activities you speak of are much more difficult for them to engage in......setting up a dope business is not all that difficult,when compared to stealing,strong arm robberies etc.....and a police/prison system unburdened by dope busts would have them locked up in no time if they were to go that route.....dealers would simply buy legit cash businesses and skim the profits,and start ups would not be worth the effort.....

the end result of prohibition in the twenties was the mob using it's illegal fortunes to get a foot hold in legitimate business,and cement their power....mobsters never campaign for legal dope.... why would they....it would be killing the golden goose

 

[cassanova]

that's how the law is worded here.....driving is considered a privilege,not a right,and the cops need no probable cause to pull you over and search your car.....

They tried that crap down here in Florida saying you're on a public road so you don't need PC to do a search. Funny thing is (and I obviously missed a memo or two somewhere) cops can't or maybe don't search your vehicle hear when stopped without asking for your consent.

EX; I've been pulled over several times, they had no real reason to need to search my car, so they've always asked. Now if my car wreaked of pot smoke, I'm sure it would've been searched without my consent.

 

[Ziltoid]

Great vid. I hadn't seen that before. I just posted it on my facebook wall.

A video I posted on maki's wall,

wow I'm I'm... flattered!

haha

 

[Jim Campbell]

They tried that crap down here in Florida saying you're on a public road so you don't need PC to do a search. Funny thing is (and I obviously missed a memo or two somewhere) cops can't or maybe don't search your vehicle hear when stopped without asking for your consent.

EX; I've been pulled over several times, they had no real reason to need to search my car, so they've always asked. Now if my car wreaked of pot smoke, I'm sure it would've been searched without my consent.

the us constitution is a wonderful thing,but pot smoke would constitute probable cause.....

 

[cassanova]

the us constitution is a wonderful thing,but pot smoke would constitute probable cause.....

I know. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[MatticusMania]

Two wrongs don't make a right, although 4 rights make a left.

3 rights make a left, 4 rights makes a square (or rectangle).

I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the law will correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the supremacy clause I'd think the fed govt would have to decriminalize it first before any state can trulu make it legal.

Thats exactly what I meant by the statement you quoted. The feds will have to decriminalize it on a federal level, and then leave it up to the states to regulate.

Something also tells me that if left up to the states, the overly conservative politicians in South would keep it criminalized. If the decision is left up to the states, it should be put on a state wide ballot and let the people vote on it.

Despite the fact that the Feds have not yet decriminalized pot on a national level, California is marching onwards to still legalize recreational use, so long as it passes the vote.

 

[spade2you]

the other activities you speak of are much more difficult for them to engage in......setting up a dope business is not all that difficult,when compared to stealing,strong arm robberies etc.....and a police/prison system unburdened by dope busts would have them locked up in no time if they were to go that route.....dealers would simply buy legit cash businesses and skim the profits,and start ups would not be worth the effort.....

the end result of prohibition in the twenties was the mob using it's illegal fortunes to get a foot hold in legitimate business,and cement their power....mobsters never campaign for legal dope.... why would they....it would be killing the golden goose

Seriously? Set up legit business and skim profits?! I don't know where to start, other than you are 100% clueless when it comes to criminals. Pleass stop arguing with me about this topic. I think others will agree you're not building a remotely good case for the cause.

 

[cassanova]

Despite the fact that the Feds have not yet decriminalized pot on a national level, California is marching onwards to still legalize recreational use, so long as it passes the vote.

My parents said something when I was a young boy about how when California or NY do something the rest of the states seem to follow suit. When I was younger I didn't get it, but now that I'm older I can see what they meant by this. I hope this is also going to hold true with Marijuana legalization.

I still wouldn't be a bit surprised though if the draconian south did not ever legalize it. After living in various states, in the North, South, and even out West, I believe the south is at least 10 years behind the times when it comes to the northern mentality. If that offends anyone then I apologize but I know I'm not the only one that thinks this way. It's just way too conservative in the south.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Seriously? Set up legit business and skim profits?! I don't know where to start, other than you are 100% clueless when it comes to criminals. Pleass stop arguing with me about this topic. I think others will agree you're not building a remotely good case for the cause.

to hear that anyone who disagrees with you is clueless.....seems comforting somehow.....perhaps you could seek out a few books on the rise of organized crime.....

 

[Thunderscreech]

I still wouldn't be a bit surprised though if the draconian south did not ever legalize it. After living in various states, in the North, South, and even out West, I believe the south is at least 10 years behind the times when it comes to the northern mentality. If that offends anyone then I apologize but I know I'm not the only one that thinks this way. It's just way too conservative in the south.

Ehh, some places are 10, but some are even further. I live not 10 minutes from the last county in the US to fully integrate their school system, and who persecuted an inter-racial couple by charging the husband with misogyny. Good ol' Caroline County...they still eat people out there...