Markbass F1 First Impressions

[BurningSkies]

Replace the words low and high with bass and treble and it should behave the same. Need more bass, crank the lows up, etc...

True, this. While you will have to get used to turning those knobs less that you might have on other amps. I use the EQ quite a bit, seeing I mostly play reggae, and I tend to turn the Low up a bit and roll of the High and high mid off.

There are no bass and treble controls on the F1 per se.

Low, high, mid low and mid high do not act like standard bass and treble controls IMO. It seems that this amp was designed to be run flat or with very small variations.

The VLE is hard to get used to out of the gate as it seems to reduce highs and boost mids (low only?) as you turn it up.

The VLF definately scoops the mids and should be a great asset for slapping.

Again.....not nitpicking, but normally when I need more bass, I turn up the bass and when I need less treble, I turn down the treble.

I LOVE THIS THING but need to get used to the controls.

BTW... the manual doesn't help. No recommended settings and very vague descriptions of what the controls really can do.

There are the same bass and treble controls...just with different names, and they DO act like you'd expect!
The only wrinkle is that there are two mids...giving you a bit more control of your spectrum. Now, the filters are kind of neat, but need to be used with a bit of finesse. The VLE does indeed roll off the highs, similarly to how a passive bass tone control works...it doesn't boost the mids or the lows. It may sound that way due to the attenuation of the highs, but you're not bumping anything.

The VPF is a different monster and can be easier to get in trouble with. As you turn it up, it attenuates the mid, and boosts lows and highs...but above and below the frequencies that are effective by the basic tone controls. Therefore, it can get either clanky or really boomy if you're not careful. I tend to turn it up to get my low-below-lows and then roll off the high end it produces by bringing up my VLE to get rid of the clanky highs.

You guys are making me want one.

What, exactly, tends to be the problem with the DI (I use DI a lot at home)?

Steve, as I mentioned in another thread, there should be no problem with the DI. I've been recording with it to various interfaces to computer without problem. as its post EQ and preamp, you'll find it might have a hotter signal than some soundpeople might be used to and its distorting at the board. I can say in multiple uses, I've had no problems, no distortion, no loss of lows or extra noise.


*** edited to add that while my comments refer to the LMII, the controls and DI are the same configuration as the F1, while the power component is different.

 

[Bassic83]

My take on the LMII controls-

Low= Bass, Rumble, Bootay...

LowMid= Bark, Whump, Slam, Punch...

HighMid= Harmonic content, can include "fret noise" or "Clank", depending on room...

High= Treble, "Sheen", "Shimmer", "Spit", possibly "String Noise"...

VLE- Tone that "acts" like the tone knob on a passive Jazz bass, but with slightly more flavor. If you boost your low mids just slightly, and max the VLE, does a pretty decent impression of a B-25 fliptop, IMO. Stands for "Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator". Cuts the highs, and maybe a touch of upper high-mids as well.

VPF- "Variable Pass Filter" (?). Acts as a variable "Modern" control. Simultaneously boosts Highs, Lows, and cuts Mids. Approximates the (in)famous "Smiley Face EQ", but with more finesse. Tends to add boom and sizzle if used too much. Also can seem to reduce your volume when played in a band setting, due to so much of a bass guitar's harmonic content being in the mids. Again, IMO.

FWIW, I still haven't found "Honky" in this amp. It may be in certain speaker cabinets, though...

I would expect the F1 controls to be about the same as the LMII in function.

 

[Baird6869]

I played a full volume rehearsal tonight with my heavy rock/metal band (Metallica, STP, Green Day, Pearl Jam, etc.) and the F1 is a keeper.

I played it thru Ampeg 1x15 and 2x10 cabs and it cut through the John Bonham style drumming and 100 tube watts of Marshall with a Les Paul without any problems and headroom to spare. I played one of my MIA Fender Jazz V's tonight and even the low B string sounded better than usual. I find that the F1 really allows you to hear the highs without sacrificing lows or becoming to treble-y.

I will likely be keeping my Ampeg around for a while as a backup but the F1 is such a great little (in size only!) amp.

Also, I figured out the controls today after I spent 10 minutes playing around with them.

 

[tombowlus]

I played a full volume rehearsal tonight with my heavy rock/metal band (Metallica, STP, Green Day, Pearl Jam, etc.) and the F1 is a keeper.

I played it thru Ampeg 1x15 and 2x10 cabs and it cut through the John Bonham style drumming and 100 tube watts of Marshall with a Les Paul without any problems and headroom to spare. I played one of my MIA Fender Jazz V's tonight and even the low B string sounded better than usual. I find that the F1 really allows you to hear the highs without sacrificing lows or becoming to treble-y.

I will likely be keeping my Ampeg around for a while as a backup but the F1 is such a great little (in size only!) amp.

Also, I figured out the controls today after I spent 10 minutes playing around with them.

Glad to hear that the F1 worked out for you!

 

[Baird6869]

Glad to hear that the F1 worked out for you!

Thanks Tom!

I would recommend you get a F1 to try but you would probably lose the little thing among the hundreds of pieces of gear you currently own.

 

[tombowlus]

I would recommend you get a F1 to try but you would probably lose the little thing among the hundreds of pieces of gear you currently own.

LOL! You are probably right.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I got to check out a friend's F1 with an EA VL210. IME VL210's are notoriously power hungry, most amps won't drive them very well. The F1 pushed it with ease.

 

[KJung]

I got to check out a friend's F1 with an EA VL210. IME VL210's are notoriously power hungry, most amps won't drive them very well. The F1 pushed it with ease.

+1 I was previously running my low efficiency Bergantino 's' stack with my Walter Ultra. In a rather extensive A/B test, the F1 sounded just as loud and full... not quite as 'open' (but nothing sounds like a Walter other than a Walter), but actually the F1 had more punch down low. Very impressive!!!

 

[chadds]

I got to check out a friend's F1 with an EA VL210. IME VL210's are notoriously power hungry, most amps won't drive them very well. The F1 pushed it with ease.

Are you getting one?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Are you getting one?

An F1? Nope. My LMII is doing exactly what I want. I would like to hear one fired up on a gig and see what difference there may be. Just for grins.

OTOH I may trade some stuff in and pickup a VL210. I think that would fit nicely in the back of the Z. I have several pawnshops steals that I need to turn into something useful, like the Trace Acoustic amp I just picked up for $70.

 

[DLM]

With the F1 having a digital switching power supply, is there consensus that the F1 is an honest, and not overstated, 500 watts?

Also, there have been some helpful tone comparisons made between the F1 and LMII in a solo setting. But, on gig, which to me is what really counts, which one is preferred and why? Which one cuts better through the mix? Which one sits more nicely in the mix? And, can each one do both well?

 

[KJung]

With the F1 having a digital switching power supply, is there consensus that the F1 is an honest, and not overstated, 500 watts?

Also, there have been some helpful tone comparisons made between the F1 and LMII in a solo setting. But, on gig, which to me is what really counts, which one is preferred and why? Which one cuts better through the mix? Which one sits more nicely in the mix? And, can each one do both well?

All Markbass products (except the big tube amp) use the same switching power supply design. The difference between the F1/SD800 and the rest of the line is that these products use a class D amp versus the more traditional class A/B amps in the rest of the line.

In the case of the F1, this results in the same power as the LMII in a smaller box. In the case of the SD800, it results in higher power than, for example, the 450, in the same size box.

All the Markbass stuff that I've played has VERY honest power ratings.. the stuff just kicks. Also, there seems to be NO lack of low end punch that I and some others have experienced in some other bass head switching power supply executions. You would never know these heads have a 'non traditional' power supply unless someone told you (or you picked them up) IMO.

Regarding the LMII and F1... they both cut through the mix very well, and generate about the same 'girth' and volume to me. I still prefer the slightly warmer, sweeter tone of the LMII, and given the LMII is just a touch bigger than the F1 and $250 less, it's hard to recommend the F1 over the LMII for me. Both are great, and are obviously in the same tone family. The only 'advantage' I see with the F1 is that its slightly tighter voicing and slightly quicker attack (probably coming from the more upper mid inherent voicing) does seem to work better with very wide voiced cabs like the larger Bergantino's, the EA VL line, Acme, etc., where a tighter, more controlled low end and a somewhat more hi fi top end response can be a positive IMO. It's subtle though.

The biggest difference I hear in the mix is when slapping, with the LMII just sounding sweet, sweet, sweet, and the F1 and SD800 being a little more harsh and 'clinical' to my ear up top.... kind of a more 'modern vintage' versus 'pure modern' tone. My buddy Steve (TBer Burk) put it very well when we were comparing the SD800 to the LMII with my Alleva. He commented that the A-C sounded like a really good jazz bass through the LMII, and it sounded like a really good jazz bass through a modern, hi fi rig through the SD800.

 

[gillento]

What is "girth" & "very wide voiced cabinets" for us non-native anglo-american speakers?

 

[KJung]

What is "girth" & "very wide voiced cabinets" for us non-native anglo-american speakers?

Hello!

What I mean by girth is the entire frequency range... the F1 and LMII both sound full, without any thinning of the low end punch (upper bass and low mids). Some amps start to compress a bit in the low end when you really start wumping, and these models stay wide open and full through their entire usable volume range to my ear. This does not mean that they are voiced to provide a huge low end way down at 30hz... but they sound full and fat, and both have a nice usable balance from low to high to my ear.

Wide voiced.... this term to me describes cabs with an extended low end, usually through the use of what the EE's call hi xmax drivers. Cabs like the larger Bergantino HT's, the Acmes, and the older EA VL line of speakers were designed and voiced to provide a deeper bass response (lower -3db roll-off) than most other cabs like Epifani, Eden, SWR, etc., etc. The bad news about that is that these cabs can sound a little too boomy in a mix if you don't power them and EQ them correctly. I hear it as a lack of mid punch, others hear it as a more even response through the entire tonal spectrum, which just sounds like 'polite mids' because we are so used to a more deep low end attenuated tone with a pronounced mid voicing built into many cabs.

The 'problem' with these 'wide voiced cabs' is that they use up a LOT of power down low to project deep low end out of a relatively small box. I've personally found that an amp like the F1 that has some 'deep low end attenuation' built in (versus, for example, the Epi502 and iAmp800, that have HUGE, deep wide low end response), along with a relatively bright upper mid and treble voicing can result in these types of cabs projecting better on the gig (i.e., louder, with more mid defintion that allows them to sit in a mix). Just IMO there... personal taste.

Hope that makes sense, and realize that it's just my opinion. Some LOVE a huge deep low end extension and a very even mid and treble response relative to the deep bass.

 

[tombowlus]

I have not tried the F1 (other than at NAMM), but for a slightly different perspective, I definitely preferred the LMII over the SD800 with my Bergantino cabs. The same holds true for several other brands (Glockenklang, and Epifani - T-212D/UL2-112) It seemed to deliver a more powerful, controlled low end to low midrange. The SD800 actually seemed to be not as tight and solid on the low end (when pushed at gig volumes) as was the LMII.

That is just IME/IMHO, though, and YMMV (which is really what my point is, here). The SD800 and F1 might be quicker or tighter in the lows with some cabs and with some styles, but at least in my situation, and with my playing style and gigs, the opposite was true.

Tom.

 

[Baird6869]

The best F1/cab combination I have heard was an F1 with Bergantino.

I played an F1 though Berg HT112, NV610 and IP212 cabs and they all sounded incredible.

I am currently using Ampeg SVT115 and SVT210 cabs with my F1 and they both sound great. Not Berg great, but great nonetheless.

 

[gillento]

Hello!

What I mean by girth is the entire frequency range... the F1 and LMII both sound full, without any thinning of the low end punch (upper bass and low mids). Some amps start to compress a bit in the low end when you really start wumping, and these models stay wide open and full through their entire usable volume range to my ear. This does not mean that they are voiced to provide a huge low end way down at 30hz... but they sound full and fat, and both have a nice usable balance from low to high to my ear.

Wide voiced.... this term to me describes cabs with an extended low end, usually through the use of what the EE's call hi xmax drivers. Cabs like the larger Bergantino HT's, the Acmes, and the older EA VL line of speakers were designed and voiced to provide a deeper bass response (lower -3db roll-off) than most other cabs like Epifani, Eden, SWR, etc., etc. The bad news about that is that these cabs can sound a little too boomy in a mix if you don't power them and EQ them correctly. I hear it as a lack of mid punch, others hear it as a more even response through the entire tonal spectrum, which just sounds like 'polite mids' because we are so used to a more deep low end attenuated tone with a pronounced mid voicing built into many cabs.

The 'problem' with these 'wide voiced cabs' is that they use up a LOT of power down low to project deep low end out of a relatively small box. I've personally found that an amp like the F1 that has some 'deep low end attenuation' built in (versus, for example, the Epi502 and iAmp800, that have HUGE, deep wide low end response), along with a relatively bright upper mid and treble voicing can result in these types of cabs projecting better on the gig (i.e., louder, with more mid defintion that allows them to sit in a mix). Just IMO there... personal taste.

...

Thanks Kjung

This reminds me of my Ashdown ABM EVO500 thru Aggies GS212 or GS112: It is the only amp I ever owned where I have to cut the lows...

 

[KJung]

I have not tried the F1 (other than at NAMM), but for a slightly different perspective, I definitely preferred the LMII over the SD800 with my Bergantino cabs. The same holds true for several other brands (Glockenklang, and Epifani - T-212D/UL2-112) It seemed to deliver a more powerful, controlled low end to low midrange. The SD800 actually seemed to be not as tight and solid on the low end (when pushed at gig volumes) as was the LMII.

That is just IME/IMHO, though, and YMMV (which is really what my point is, here). The SD800 and F1 might be quicker or tighter in the lows with some cabs and with some styles, but at least in my situation, and with my playing style and gigs, the opposite was true.

Tom.

+1.... the SD800 has a MUCH bigger low end than either the F1 or the LMII... a big low end does not do well IMO with the Epi T cabs and especially the larger Berg HT's. It can sound a little 'loose' as you say (although it kills with the tighter voiced Epi UL line). The F1 just KILLs with the Berg HT line though (at least with my 's' cabs, which are closer to the HT322, HT210, etc. than to the more mid oriented HT112's that seem to really love the LMII).

Of course, as I've posted before, the LMII pretty much sounds great with everything.

Mix and match!!!!

 

[KJung]

Thanks Kjung

This reminds me of my Ashdown ABM EVO500 thru Aggies GS212 or GS112: It is the only amp I ever owned where I have to cut the lows...

+1... while the GS's aren't nearly as extreme as the examples I gave above, they too have quite an extended low end versus the mid response, and are also helped by either a tighter voiced head or some very exact EQing down low IMO.

 

[WalWarrior]

Hey Guys -

I just picked up a LM II last week from GC. I bought it to put in a Faux Vox T 100 head that sits atop the VOX trolly for a newly starting Beatles Tribute act. The head is powering a 2 X 15 4 ohm cab and it sounds awesome. ( Northcoast Music )I have only played Hofner Basses through it as of yet, but am planning on taking it to my Classic Rock bands rehearsal facility to replace a Huge Rig that's currently at that site now. ( A Peavey 3620 bass enclosure with a powered 2X10 on top of that, then a Peavey mark IV head ) The head powers the 2 18's, and the powered 2x10 cab powers the other 10's in the 3620 cab. That rig is from 1984. The Drummer in that act lives 110 miles away from our main rehearsal facility, so we set up a small studio at his place to split the drive. One month of rehearsals at his place, one month at mine, etc. My band mates will flip out when the Peavey rig goes out and incomes a 2X10 Eden Cab with the LM II. A light setup I can haul back and forth. At the main rehearsal facility, my rig I'm currently using is a rack with an Ampeg SVT 4 pro, an Alembic FX1 pre, going to an 8 ohm Eden 2X10 XLT atop a 4 ohm Eden 4X10 XLT. The LM II looks to be a great addition, and from what I've read here, looks like I made a good purchase. Take care all - Dennis