Markbass F1 Pricing

[ChocolateTV]

Just seen the Markbass F1 on sale for the first time here:

Invalid Link Removed

It's priced at 888 EUR (RRP 999 EUR). The Little Mark II on the same site is priced at 639 EUR (RRP 749 EUR) - see Invalid Link Removed

Now, if this is correct, Markbass are pricing the F1 at a 33% premium over the Little Mark. All for a slightly smaller/lighter case and a different (not necessarily better) power amp if I'm not mistaken.

Is it me, or is Markbass having a laugh?

 

[The Penguin]

It's about half the size of the LMII and still cheaper than a WW so I understand the pricing. Small has always equaled expensive in electronics.

Personally I'm expecting to see a rush of tiny amps soon, the technology is decades old and I'm sure a product from a big company in Asia could be more profitable than an Italian product based on labor costs. I suspect if Markbass demonstrates a strong market for tiny amps the big boys will follow shortly. Actually there's already a handful trying. Yamaha, Eden, Acoustic Image, Walter Woods, Genz Benz, Ashdown. Exciting times for amp buyers

 

[rodl2005]

Sure is. Thats why I wanna get a V4B!

 

[Baird6869]

I would love a 3.5lb head that sounds as good as the F1 apparently does.

My question to all is this..... How well protected and how ruggedized could the Mark Bass F1, the small EA and other sub 5 pounders be?

My B2RE Ampeg is almost 20lbs but I bet at least 1/2 of that weight is the exterior cladding.

BTW, my Ampeg had been dropped a few times and it is still kickin'.

Just curious if anyone is thinking similar thoughts.

 

[realdeal]

After hearing the well-placed "buzz" about MarkBass, particularly the LMII, I waited anxiously, like many others, for them to arrive at GC.
Eventually, they did, and I took a test drive. Real nice- well-built, good tone, great price- Not much to not like!

The introduction of the F1 kinda made me wonder though-
It was introduced SO soon after the LMII, it seemed as if MarkBass was almost trying to introduce "planned obsolesence", i.e.-
"Well, you have small and powerful, but now here's even SMALLER-and it's only $200 more (or whatever). It appears that there's little difference between the 2 units, except for size. I don't mean to slam MarkBass, they're doing a good thing with a good product-

But at least for me, it's not the Holy Grail- They sound good, but my SVT-3 Pro sounds better, at least to me, and I can deal with hauling a "massive" 19 x 15" 26-lb. unit around without stashing it in my back pocket or gig-bag!!

Eden, EA, and Genz-Benz jumped in the market, Mesa'a WalkAbout has been around a while now- What a great little amp that is.

I've read several postings where the happy owner of a LMII now has GAS for the soon-to-be available F1 (deja vu?)
My thoughts- Find your rig, use it, practice, and don't feel that if it's new and available, you gotta have it to get "the sound"-
You don't!

Besides, we all can't be the dude here with all the gear!! (Tom something) It would be nice though!!

 

[Jeff Moote]

The introduction of the F1 kinda made me wonder though-
It was introduced SO soon after the LMII, it seemed as if MarkBass was almost trying to introduce "planned obsolesence", i.e.-
"Well, you have small and powerful, but now here's even SMALLER-and it's only $200 more (or whatever). It appears that there's little difference between the 2 units, except for size. I don't mean to slam MarkBass, they're doing a good thing with a good product-

The F1 is not the same as the LMII. The differences go far beyond price and form factor - I'm told by those who have compared them that the sound is rather different due to the differing power section. Add that to the fact that in this market the size/weight is the main attraction after sound, and there is plenty of reason to have both products.

My thoughts- Find your rig, use it, practice, and don't feel that if it's new and available, you gotta have it to get "the sound"-
You don't!

You might not need new equipment to get your sound, but if your amp design is more than 10 or 15 years old it's most definitely bigger and heavier than it needs to be. Go ahead and carry around your Ampeg, but I'll take a newer product that (IMO) sounds better anyway. ..and I'm not saying everyone needs to like the Markbass sound, but even if your preferences lie elsewhere and you are not set on tube power, there is no reason for a head to weigh much over 20lbs.

FWIW I will not be unloading my LMII for an F1

 

[realdeal]

I doubt very much that there is any appreciable difference betwen the voicing of the LMII and the FI- Note I said "appreciable"
It's subjective so no point in discussion, except your statement about the two units having differences "far beyond price and form factor" doesn't fly.

The primary reason for introducing the F1 was to increase sales- it has essentially the same eq as the LMII, so it's --"newer, smaller, better" Gotta have it!" I doubt that the "differing power section"could be discerned audibly. Really.
Nothing wrong with MarkBass trying to increase sales.

Your statement that a 10 year old amp is out-of date- Nuts! If your rig sounds good, play it. My '69 P-Bass is also "obsolete" Care to know how good IT sounds???
I'm sure the sought-after vintage SVT's and Trace-Elliots, etc. still do the job, even with your comment about all-tube circuits being the excepton.
Smaller is NOT intrinsically better.
I'll glady carry my "over 20-lb" 3-Pro around because I don't NEED to replace it. It has a warmth that that the LMII doesn't get for me.
That is the "reason" .

 

[Jeff Moote]

I doubt very much that there is any appreciable difference betwen the voicing of the LMII and the FI- Note I said "appreciable"
It's subjective so no point in discussion, except your statement about the two units having differences "far beyond price and form factor" doesn't fly.

Can you hear the difference between a tube power section and solid state? How about Class A and Class D? I should hope you can as a musician, with appreciation for how things sound. These amps do sound different.

The primary reason for introducing the F1 was to increase sales- it has essentially the same eq as the LMII, so it's --"newer, smaller, better" Gotta have it!"

How do you know that? Do you work for Markbass marketing? I bet they introduced it because they designed something they liked and thought that someone might want to buy it

I doubt that the "differing power section"could be discerned audibly. Really.

I addressed this above: it can be discerned audibly. Really.

Your statement that a 10 year old amp is out-of date- Nuts! If your rig sounds good, play it. My '69 P-Bass is also "obsolete" Care to know how good IT sounds???

I bet it sounds great! Old basses are fantastic, and the truth is that new basses on the market have made very minor technological improvements. Amplification on the other hand serves no purpose than to amplify your instrument. There are now lighter, smaller and more INEXPENSIVE (compared to what you paid for an SVT in the 70s, for example) that do the job better. This is fact, no matter where your tastes lie.

Smaller is NOT intrinsically better.

Yes it is, unless moving your equipment fits somewhere into your fitness routine

I'll glady carry my "over 20-lb" 3-Pro around because I don't NEED to replace it. It has a warmth that that the LMII doesn't get for me.
That is the "reason" .

I'm not saying you need to get a Markbass. Maybe you don't even need to think about new equipment, but the truth is you could have your sound with more power in a smaller lighter package if you keep up with technology. If you're content, then great, but that's not a valid argument against new gear...

 

[Foamy]

If the F1 can fit in a single rack space, that would be nice as one could carry it around in a rack case with other gear if desired. The LMII is a funky size, and takes up kind of more than it really needs.

The weight is lighter, so....is it appreciably lighter? Yeah. For me, I am fine with the LMII, so that won't make me switch. However, if you have a heavy head, and you are trying to decide between several light heads, the F1 would likely win out when compared to the rest. So if weight is a major factor, F1 would be the best.
Sound? Don't know. I've not heard too many heads that really sound exactly alike, and I don't expect the F1 to be the same as the LMII. So, there will be a different voicing to choose from as well.
I'm not really that convinced that the F1 is a marketing ploy - it seems that they could sell LMII's as fast as they can ship them.
And hey, if a whole lot of olks sell off their LMII's for F1's, who's the big winner? You all out there who want an LMII for a great price.
Now then, if y'all just plain ol don't like them, don't buy them. Makes more on the GC shelves for those who are still trying to get one.

 

[jmain]

Like Jeff was saying, I think the F1 is Class D and the LMII is A/B. Some kind of difference besides just the weight and form.

 

[kasbrey]

The introduction of the F1 kinda made me wonder though-
It was introduced SO soon after the LMII,

I've had my LM11 for 18 months and the F1 isn't in stock anywhere yet. It's not really so soon.

 

[Peter Murray]

I've had my LM11 for 18 months and the F1 isn't in stock anywhere yet. It's not really so soon.

The Little Mark II was introduced at the NAMM show in January 2005. The F1 comes out in summer 2007, more than 2 years later. But we were without US distribution until last August, so that's why it may seem that the F1 came up fast.

Marco and his team are constantly working on new products.

I've compared the LMII and the F1, both on my own and with others, and most agree that the F1 sounds "faster" and "crisper" whereas the LMII is "warmer". I use quotations since sound is so subjective.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[needmoney]

I've compared the LMII and the F1, both on my own and with others, and most agree that the F1 sounds "faster" and "crisper" whereas the LMII is "warmer". I use quotations since sound is so subjective.

Sweet, definitely makes me want to stick with the LM-II!

 

[KJung]

Sweet, definitely makes me want to stick with the LM-II!

The unusual combination of a class A/B power amp with a switching power supply seems to give the LMII a unique combination of 'warm and fat' with extreme light weight. So, the slightly smaller footprint of the F1 due to the Class D power amp isn't that interesting to me. However, I'm looking forward to checking it out.

I assume the F1 is closer to a 'smaller SD800' than the LMII, so it makes sense to me as a new product. I also makes sense that it would be higher priced... as posted above... small usually means higher cost. Now, if that figured out how to put the SD800 in a box the size of the LMII... THAT would be something!

 

[realdeal]

Can you hear the difference between a tube power section and solid state? How about Class A and Class D? I should hope you can as a musician, with appreciation for how things sound. These amps do sound different.


How do you know that? Do you work for Markbass marketing? I bet they introduced it because they designed something they liked and thought that someone might want to buy it I addressed this above: it can be discerned audibly. Really.


I bet it sounds great! Old basses are fantastic, and the truth is that new basses on the market have made very minor technological improvements. Amplification on the other hand serves no purpose than to amplify your instrument. There are now lighter, smaller and more INEXPENSIVE (compared to what you paid for an SVT in the 70s, for example) that do the job better. This is fact, no matter where your tastes lie.
Yes it is, unless moving your equipment fits somewhere into your fitness routine
I'm not saying you need to get a Markbass. Maybe you don't even need to think about new equipment, but the truth is you could have your sound with more power in a smaller lighter package if you keep up with technology. If you're content, then great, but that's not a valid argument against new gear...

1) Audible differences: Tube vs. Solid State Compared to Class A/Class D ??? Wow! You are stretchiiiiiiiiiiiing- Big time!
Plus, I don;t recall where I learned at Berklee, "as a musician" the musicality factors of Class A, D, A/B, etc. Prolly too busy studying that insignificant stuff, like modes, ya know....

2)No, I don't "work for MarkBass or somethng" I play for a living.

3)I don't need to get a MarkBass, or anything else for that matter. Got my gear taken care of, so besides enjoying seeing and hearing new equipment, I don't need feel the need to reduce the tremendous weight of 26-lb load in. (Besides when I tour, I have the luxury of a 2-man road crew provided! And locally, for my own projects, when I must do without- i can hang! The new gear does not necessarily do the job better- There are reasons I'd prefer to use, say, a tried and true G-K 800 or my 3-pro, or my V4BH, or my Mesa Buster-
To me they sound better than MarkBass, even if they make one the size of a credit card!

Now- You go back to the drawing board, I'm a-headed to the studio- With one of my giant, obsolete, massively heavy un-state of the art rigs.
I LUV it!


Lucky me.

 

[Foamy]

1) Audible differences: Tube vs. Solid State Compared to Class A/Class D ??? Wow! You are stretchiiiiiiiiiiiing- Big time!
Plus, I don;t recall where I learned at Berklee, "as a musician" the musicality factors of Class A, D, A/B, etc. Prolly too busy studying that insignificant stuff, like modes, ya know....

2)No, I don't "work for MarkBass or somethng" I play for a living.

3)I don't need to get a MarkBass, or anything else for that matter. Got my gear taken care of, so besides enjoying seeing and hearing new equipment, I don't need feel the need to reduce the tremendous weight of 26-lb load in. (Besides when I tour, I have the luxury of a 2-man road crew provided! And locally, for my own projects, when I must do without- i can hang! The new gear does not necessarily do the job better- There are reasons I'd prefer to use, say, a tried and true G-K 800 or my 3-pro, or my V4BH, or my Mesa Buster-
To me they sound better than MarkBass, even if they make one the size of a credit card!

Now- You go back to the drawing board, I'm a-headed to the studio- With one of my giant, obsolete, massively heavy un-state of the art rigs.
I LUV it!


Lucky me.

Um....OK. TTFN.

 

[Infernal Affair]

I think there's been a big misunderstanding in this thread. realdeal's posts make him look like a Luddite, but I don't think that's what he's going for. He likes the sound of his vintage equipment, and would prefer other things, like a GK 800rb. More power to him. I currently am not a recording artist nor do I tour. But I do like the sound of the Markbass. If money/size were no issue I sure wouldn't mind trying out other stuff, but from my understanding there's lots of people on these boards who have tried lots of gear and have come away mighty impressed with the Markbass stuff.

But we all know that if it weren't for new technology then we'd all be using computers the size of classrooms. What if they reduced the size of the 800rb to the size of the Littlemark II? I'm sure it's possible. GK amps have never been that heavy to begin with. That's why I'm glad companies like Markbass, Genz Benz, Eden, etc. are working on this type of technology. It encourages new ideas and sways other companies to give it a shot.

 

[Foamy]

I think there's been a big misunderstanding in this thread.......

Yeah, yeah, you're right. What happened is he kind of made a detour of the original thread topic which was the OP wondering if Markbass was having a laugh on us, and the recent release of the F1 hot on the heels of the "AVAILABLITY IN THE US" of the LM II was maybe a marketing ploy on MB's part. Nobody is saying that one size fits all - nobody ever said that, and on behalf of myself, and if I can speak for Jeff... If you have something you are happy with, then we are very happy for you indeed. Go forth and be happy. More Markbass for us!!!

 

[emjazz]

I can see the appeal of the F1 for sure. I love my LMKII but it doesn't fit in the front pouch of my gigbag....however it seems the F1 would. I won't be getting rid of my LMKII for the F1 (especially after hearing Peter's thoughts on the differences of the two) but I do see that the F1 is different enough from the littlemark to be marketable..................I can't imagine it being anything about money. That seems absurd to me.

If I lived in NYC I'd own an F1 for sure.

 

[ChocolateTV]

Quite right! I started this thread because I can't help thinking that Markbass have deliberately premium priced the F1 because they think they can get away with it.

It would be marketing suicide to increase the price of the LMII yet many people are turning to Markbass from more expensive equipment, not because of value, but because of sound and portability. So, for those with the cash (i.e. used to more expensive equipment), Markbass can extract more money from them by offering essentially an identical amp for a higher price. And still keep the LMII at the original price thereby offering maintaining their value for money reputation.

New technology does tend to be premium priced, but we're not talking about the computing market or an iPod here... Let's be honest, if you travel to gigs/rehearsals by car, the difference in size and weight is irrelevant between the LMII and the F1. If you use the bus and need to fit the amp in your gig bag, then size will be more of an issue.

If the pricing is correct, I'm not sure how successful the F1 will be. Unless the sound is dramatically different and people prefer it, I just can't see many people stumping up the extra. I could be proved wrong...