Markbass F1 Pricing

[Infernal Affair]

Oh yeah. I wasn't implying one side or the other Tim. You guys have all been great. I just wanted to make sure no one got on each other over something silly.

Totally agree on the size/price thing. If that weren't true, then people wouldn't be buying ipods with each new version that comes out (not counting Apples marketing juggernaut), despite having little to no extra features besides form factor changes.

 

[Infernal Affair]

New technology does tend to be premium priced, but we're not talking about the computing market or an iPod here...

I'll have to disagree with you there. The ipod has changed very little throughout its lifespan. Most of its later alterations have been size/form factor, but that is a big deal to people, apparently. A person can get an 8 gig Nano for almost the same price as a 30 gig 5th gen with video playback. The Nano can't play video, but it is smaller and lighter plus uses flash memory. There are also various sizes of memory for the 5th gen ipod. All of them use virtually the same clickwheel interface sans the Shuffle.

However, in some ways the ipod isn't a fair comparison because there's lots of people who will buy anything ipod even if it is a stupid idea just because it's new and Apple is equated with the words "cool" and "groundbreaking" (cough Shuffle). I say this as someone who has owned more than one ipod.

But to stay on topic, yes I do believe there will be a market for the F1, just like there's a market for different ipods. If it were me, the price difference is a big deal. We already have similar instances like this in the bass market, but with regards to power ratings (I don't perceived the GK 400rb, 700rb, 800rb, etc. to be all that different from each other except for watts and a few other things). It's just now instead of paying a premium for more power you're putting the money down for a smaller size.

 

[ChocolateTV]

I was talking more about the relative pace of the different markets. In 'iPod world' or 'PC world' consumers expect a new product every year, regardless of whether they need it. In 'Bass world', many of us are still using actual or close relations of designs from the 50's, 60's and 70's. In 10 years' time, the new iPods or equivalents will be almost unrecognisable from what they are now. Windows XP or even Vista will be a distant memory. Yet Markbass will probably still be making the Little Mark. And Ampeg will certainly still be making the SVT. You get the idea...

 

[Infernal Affair]

Ah. I see what you're getting at now. Maybe Markbass wants to develop the market at a more rapid pace... Hmm. Interesting.

 

[The Penguin]

realdeal's posts make him look like a Luddite

I prefer the term neo-luddite

I'm curious to see if the market really wants tiny amps. Though we may not want to admit it machismo plays heavily into how we pick an amp. Mesa Boogie even makes a big empty box you can put the Walkabout in and pretend you have a big tube head. For decades rockers have filled the stage with empty cabinets to look cool. Tiny may also be a tiny market...

 

[Brad Johnson]

I prefer the term neo-luddite

I'm curious to see if the market really wants tiny amps. Though we may not want to admit it machismo plays heavily into how we pick an amp. Mesa Boogie even makes a big empty box you can put the Walkabout in and pretend you have a big tube head. For decades rockers have filled the stage with empty cabinets to look cool. Tiny may also be a tiny market...

People I know who gig want to carry as little as possible. Large gear only impresses people who are into that kind of thing and that number seems to continue to dwindle. Small for the sake of small is disappointing to most people if it falls short performance-wise, OTOH small that kicks butt is a welcome thing. very welcome from the greeting the LMII's have gotten.

Maybe machismo remains as far as rockers, for everyone else going big seems pretty pointless.

As far as the F1 being a marketing ploy or whatever, I doubt it. It's another alternative and downizing even further than the LMII would logically come at a premium. And the LMII was announced more than a year ago so it's not like it's right on the heels of that product

 

[Foamy]

People I know who gig want to carry as little as possible. Large gear only impresses people who are into that kind of thing and that number seems to continue to dwindle. Small for the sake of small is disappointing to most people if it falls short performance-wise, OTOH small that kicks butt is a welcome thing. very welcome from the greeting the LMII's have gotten.

Maybe machismo remains as far as rockers, for everyone else going big seems pretty pointless.

As far as the F1 being a marketing ploy or whatever, I doubt it. It's another alternative and downizing even further than the LMII would logically come at a premium. And the LMII was announced more than a year ago so it's not like it's right on the heels of that product

Ayup.

 

[The Penguin]

Quite right! I started this thread because I can't help thinking that Markbass have deliberately premium priced the F1 because they think they can get away with it

Isn't that how everything is priced? I don't know why some assume price is set by cost of the product. A good example of this is video cameras. When they went from analog tape to digital tape the production costs went way down, they were also lighter so shipping went down but the digital ones were marketed at a higher price.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I would love a 3.5lb head that sounds as good as the F1 apparently does.

My question to all is this..... How well protected and how ruggedized could the Mark Bass F1, the small EA and other sub 5 pounders be?

My B2RE Ampeg is almost 20lbs but I bet at least 1/2 of that weight is the exterior cladding.

BTW, my Ampeg had been dropped a few times and it is still kickin'.

Just curious if anyone is thinking similar thoughts.

Not really. Most larger heads don't come in cases either.

There's not much protection... so I won't drop it. It's small enough that a roady really shouldn't have to touch it... of course someone could mount the 6 lb. amp in a 15 lb. case for protection. I know I won't.

 

[KJung]

People I know who gig want to carry as little as possible. Large gear only impresses people who are into that kind of thing and that number seems to continue to dwindle. Small for the sake of small is disappointing to most people if it falls short performance-wise, OTOH small that kicks butt is a welcome thing. very welcome from the greeting the LMII's have gotten.

Maybe machismo remains as far as rockers, for everyone else going big seems pretty pointless.

As far as the F1 being a marketing ploy or whatever, I doubt it. It's another alternative and downizing even further than the LMII would logically come at a premium. And the LMII was announced more than a year ago so it's not like it's right on the heels of that product

+1... for the professional freelance market, we've been chasing 'small and great sounding' ever since the first Walter Woods came out, followed by the GK400 all those years ago.

In the population of players I work with, if you show up with something big and heavy, they think you're an idiot

 

[Brad Johnson]

I was talking more about the relative pace of the different markets. In 'iPod world' or 'PC world' consumers expect a new product every year, regardless of whether they need it. In 'Bass world', many of us are still using actual or close relations of designs from the 50's, 60's and 70's. In 10 years' time, the new iPods or equivalents will be almost unrecognisable from what they are now. Windows XP or even Vista will be a distant memory. Yet Markbass will probably still be making the Little Mark. And Ampeg will certainly still be making the SVT. You get the idea...

Fortunately bassists aren't as tradition bound as some other musicians so we're willing to try new things as they become available. Sometimes maybe too willing

What will Markbass be building in 10 years? Who knows? One thing is for sure, they are easily one of the more forward-thinking companies in our market and seem to like pushing the envelope. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if they get the size down exponentially by then, to an almost inconceivable size by today's standards.

 

[The Penguin]

People I know who gig want to carry as little as possible.

Me too, I'm just wondering if that's more like 1% or 50% of the overall market.

 

[Brad Johnson]

+1... for the professional freelance market, we've been chasing 'small and great sounding' ever since the first Walter Woods came out, followed by the GK400 all those years ago.

In the population of players I work with, if you show up with something big and heavy, they think you're an idiot

Exactly. Since the early days of WW.

A fun example of that was an open mic I used to do. No PA support. A bassist rolled in with a big head and a pair of 410 cabs. He was doing a lead bass kind of thing so he got me to play with him. Other bassists who were there were amazed that my butt-high rig (Thunderfunk + Nahas cabs) not only kept up with him, it sounded overall just better... louder, punchier, deeper, ad nauseum.

He was a very nice guy and I honestly felt sorry for him when I saw that he transported the rig in a four door sedan and only one cab would fit on his back seat... which meant he had to make two trips just to bring it from home.

I joked with him that as you get older, you strive to get smarter.

 

[B String]

Now, if that figured out how to put the SD800 in a box the size of the LMII... THAT would be something!

Oh baby! Yes! Yes!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Me too, I'm just wondering if that's more like 1% or 50% of the overall market.

Sounds like a good excuse for a poll.

The answer I'm sure I'd get from anyone I know to the question "If you could retain your sound in a package a fraction of the size of your current amp?" would be a resounding

"Duh"

 

[Jeff Moote]

1) Audible differences: Tube vs. Solid State Compared to Class A/Class D ??? Wow! You are stretchiiiiiiiiiiiing- Big time!
Plus, I don;t recall where I learned at Berklee, "as a musician" the musicality factors of Class A, D, A/B, etc. Prolly too busy studying that insignificant stuff, like modes, ya know....

I'm happy that you spent lots of time studying music. I don't really count my time spent on gear as "music time" since I like technology. It's fun and interesting, and it's nice to see just how efficiently a company can deliver tone I'm happy with. Like I said before - I don't want to see you playing Markbass, I want to see you playing the best gear for you.

But we all know that if it weren't for new technology then we'd all be using computers the size of classrooms. What if they reduced the size of the 800rb to the size of the Littlemark II? I'm sure it's possible.

This is my WHOLE point - not that you should be playing Markbass, but that new technology is GOOD.

 

[jmain]

Sounds like a good excuse for a poll.

The answer I'm sure I'd get from anyone I know to the question "If you could retain your sound in a package a fraction of the size of your current amp?" would be a resounding

"Duh"

Yeah, I think I'd have to pick "Duh" over "Carrots" in that one.

 

[arbitrary]

Yeap, that price puts me out of buying an F1. I'll have to actually see a LMII before getting one, as my local guitar center has never had one in.

 

[Passinwind]

I'm curious to see if the market really wants tiny amps. Though we may not want to admit it machismo plays heavily into how we pick an amp. Mesa Boogie even makes a big empty box you can put the Walkabout in and pretend you have a big tube head. For decades rockers have filled the stage with empty cabinets to look cool. Tiny may also be a tiny market...

Geezers with hernias definitely do not look cool at all. And we have the disposable income to drive the market, no?

 

[Infernal Affair]

I for one am a young and strapping lad, and I'm perfectly fine with making my trips easier with a lighter amp, especially if it means I get to the place that much faster to play!

"Duh!" is right.