Markbass F1 Pricing

[The Penguin]

Geezers with hernias definitely do not look cool at all. And we have the disposable income to drive the market, no?

We'll see, the WW has been around for decades and it hasn't driven the market or sparked any popular clones. I think a lot of musicians feel inferior with a smaller amp. Maybe overall we buy amps like we do cars?

 

[ChocolateTV]

Isn't that how everything is priced? I don't know why some assume price is set by cost of the product. A good example of this is video cameras. When they went from analog tape to digital tape the production costs went way down, they were also lighter so shipping went down but the digital ones were marketed at a higher price.

If Markbass didn't have the LMII priced as it is then I wouldn't question the F1 pricing. What I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, there will be a minority of people who are willing to pay a 33% premium for the F1. Had they priced the LMII higher to start with so the gap was smaller then the difference wouldn't look so ludicrous and opportunistic.

The answer I'm sure I'd get from anyone I know to the question "If you could retain your sound in a package a fraction of the size of your current amp?" would be a resounding

"Duh"

The discussion here is focussing more around the value of downsizing to the F1 as opposed to the LMII. There is a general consensus that the LMII is a great value, decent sounding head that happens to be very portable. In view of that, is it worth spending 33% more money to get a something that's a bit smaller again. We're not comparing to your 'normal' rig if that's not already a LMII.

People I know who gig want to carry as little as possible. Large gear only impresses people who are into that kind of thing and that number seems to continue to dwindle. Small for the sake of small is disappointing to most people if it falls short performance-wise, OTOH small that kicks butt is a welcome thing. very welcome from the greeting the LMII's have gotten.

In the real world, the difference in size and weight between the LMII and the F1 is irrelevant. It could be argued that the F1 is "small for the sake of small" unless, as I said earlier, you don't have your own transport. The LMII will not give you a hernia!!! It could also be argued that, to pay that premium over the LMII for that weight/size saving is only for people who are "into that sort of thing" - impressed by small gear...

 

[Jeff Moote]

The discussion here is focussing more around the value of downsizing to the F1 as opposed to the LMII. There is a general consensus that the LMII is a great value, decent sounding head that happens to be very portable. In view of that, is it worth spending 33% more money to get a something that's a bit smaller again. We're not comparing to your 'normal' rig if that's not already a LMII.

Everyone is avoiding the real point: the F1 is not just a smaller LMII and doesn't sound the same. You're not paying 33% more for a bit smaller size, but for a different amp altogether that happens to be smaller. Of course since they are both Markbass heads they'll sound "similar", just like all Ampegs sound like Ampegs or all SWR sounds like SWR, but they aren't the same. Don't tell me a B2R sounds the same as an SVT...

 

[Brad Johnson]

We'll see, the WW has been around for decades and it hasn't driven the market or sparked any popular clones. I think a lot of musicians feel inferior with a smaller amp. Maybe overall we buy amps like we do cars?

Walter Woods didn't just fly off the shelves? You think the price had anything to do with that?




As far as the inferiority thing, I don't know anyone who'd feel inferior because they have a small, kickass amp. The people I know are mainly concerned with sound... if it's there it could come in a brown paper bag for all we care.

I originally did not care for the Markbass color scheme. I got over that quick. That's how important looks are to me.

I guess we just run in completely different circles.

And I prefer small, powerful performance cars. So maybe you're right. I guess the people you're talking about dig Hummers.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If Markbass didn't have the LMII priced as it is then I wouldn't question the F1 pricing. What I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, there will be a minority of people who are willing to pay a 33% premium for the F1. Had they priced the LMII higher to start with so the gap was smaller then the difference wouldn't look so ludicrous and opportunistic.

How do the two amps sound? Identical... or not? You seem to be making the case that they sound indentical, since you ignore it as a factor.

The idea that if the LMII sold for more the F1 would seem less ludicrous... wow. Seriously.

The discussion here is focussing more around the value of downsizing to the F1 as opposed to the LMII. There is a general consensus that the LMII is a great value, decent sounding head that happens to be very portable. In view of that, is it worth spending 33% more money to get a something that's a bit smaller again. We're not comparing to your 'normal' rig if that's not already a LMII.

That's not the consensus I've seen. It's better than "decent" sounding.

Any way you slice it an LMII is a heck of a bargain at it's price. If the F1 does sound different (I've heard quicker and not as warm, which some people might actually prefer) AND it gives those changes in an even smaller package... you price it. What should it sell for?

In the real world, the difference in size and weight between the LMII and the F1 is irrelevant. It could be argued that the F1 is "small for the sake of small" unless, as I said earlier, you don't have your own transport. The LMII will not give you a hernia!!! It could also be argued that, to pay that premium over the LMII for that weight/size saving is only for people who are "into that sort of thing" - impressed by small gear...

It's only being argued that it's small for the sake of being small by people who AFAIK haven't even heard one. That makes about as much sense as many who judged the LMII "on paper" only to find it defied what they "thought" it would sound like.


When the head becomes available, people will try it. If it gives them something the LMII doesn't and they like it, it would make sense to then compare it NOT to the LMII but instead to the COMPETITION. at which point it could likely look like an excellent bargain. If it gives them the SAME thing as the LMII, they can choose to save the money or not. If it doesn't work they can move on.

Nothing quite so enlightening as the musings on value at TB.


No matter how hard people try, they can't hear by reading.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Quite right! I started this thread because I can't help thinking that Markbass have deliberately premium priced the F1 because they think they can get away with it.

It would be marketing suicide to increase the price of the LMII yet many people are turning to Markbass from more expensive equipment, not because of value, but because of sound and portability. So, for those with the cash (i.e. used to more expensive equipment), Markbass can extract more money from them by offering essentially an identical amp for a higher price. And still keep the LMII at the original price thereby offering maintaining their value for money reputation.

New technology does tend to be premium priced, but we're not talking about the computing market or an iPod here... Let's be honest, if you travel to gigs/rehearsals by car, the difference in size and weight is irrelevant between the LMII and the F1. If you use the bus and need to fit the amp in your gig bag, then size will be more of an issue.

If the pricing is correct, I'm not sure how successful the F1 will be. Unless the sound is dramatically different and people prefer it, I just can't see many people stumping up the extra. I could be proved wrong...

Some what I would think very obvious questions:

How can you exclude value?

Do you think people aren't also turning to MB from less expensive equipment?

Why do you say they're identical? Essentially or otherwise. Unless this is based on something, why are you bent on assuming so? Because they're both black and yellow?

How much LESS is an F1 than a comparable Epifani, Eden, SWR, Thunderfunk, Euphonic Audio, Acoustic Image, etc.? Think no one will notice that?

Do people who want an amp to fit in their gigbags buy amps?

How many will MB need to sell?

If people would realize what they don't know, some of these threads might make a lot more sense.

 

[dave_bass5]

I get the feeling that because the F1 doesn't actually offer anything over the LMII apart from smaller size then its bound to be compared to the LMII as they both do the same job. Not even an increase in output.
The LMII can be had for £385 from the bass centre so there is a big difference in price, just for a smaller amp.
I was going to get a F! when they come out but its just not worth the extra cost IMHO
If you look at the price difference between the SA450 and SD800, both the same apart form ones digital but costs a lot more then you can see why the F1 costs more but i still dont think it will sell well.
IMO of course. (and yes, i would love one but wouldn't buy it at that price)

 

[realdeal]

I think there's been a big misunderstanding in this thread. realdeal's posts make him look like a Luddite, but I don't think that's what he's going for. He likes the sound of his vintage equipment, and would prefer other things, like a GK 800rb. More power to him. I currently am not a recording artist nor do I tour. But I do like the sound of the Markbass. If money/size were no issue I sure wouldn't mind trying out other stuff, but from my understanding there's lots of people on these boards who have tried lots of gear and have come away mighty impressed with the Markbass stuff.

But we all know that if it weren't for new technology then we'd all be using computers the size of classrooms. What if they reduced the size of the 800rb to the size of the Littlemark II? I'm sure it's possible. GK amps have never been that heavy to begin with. That's why I'm glad companies like Markbass, Genz Benz, Eden, etc. are working on this type of technology. It encourages new ideas and sways other companies to give it a shot.

Internal, nice post, and it's also fine to hear a response without the smarm factor (although I too, can fall prey to that!)
Couple things:

I actually was going for the "Amish" rather than "Luddite" or even "neo-Luddite" vibe...

To the "smarm-mongers" (smiley...smiley!!)
Read my lips! I like MarkBass! Really! Played it- Liked it... small, powerful, good tone, great price... What's not to like?

Do I NEED it? No, I have gear. I don't quite agree with the Vintage description of a 3-Pro; even my V4BH is SLM, and Buster.... that's 90's, and all-tube. "vintage" might apply to a B-15 or 70's SV, etc. Nonetheless-
I got into smaller gear with the GK 150S, which has served me well on MANY MANY local club dates. Also an incredibly whopping 26-lbs!!
Point is- They may be able to reduce the size of the 800RB-
They can't down-size the 3-Pro; it has 3 pre-amp and 2 driver tubes
(which sound very good I may add!) and they certainly can't reduce an all-tube circuit.
They can and do use class D to downsize amps, and that's the trend.
Good. I like it. Don't need one, since I really like my gear, I don't have issues with transport, and I certainly don't feel that the 5/6 -whatever lb. LMII would need to be superceded by the 3-lb F1-
Gotta see what the FII's gonna be like!

I think new technology is great. Enjoy what you play, enjoy adding to your arsenal for whatever reasons you need or want to- But in the end-
It's all about music- or should be. Getting too deep into power-switching systems...
I dunno--- Not enough playing time, maybe?? Or something!!!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I get the feeling that because the F1 doesn't actually offer anything over the LMII apart from smaller size then its bound to be compared to the LMII as they both do the same job. Not even an increase in output.
The LMII can be had for £385 from the bass centre so there is a big difference in price, just for a smaller amp.
I was going to get a F! when they come out but its just not worth the extra cost IMHO
If you look at the price difference between the SA450 and SD800, both the same apart form ones digital but costs a lot more then you can see why the F1 costs more but i still dont think it will sell well.
IMO of course. (and yes, i would love one but wouldn't buy it at that price)

So they do sound identical?

 

[dave_bass5]

So they do sound identical?

I didnt say that. i said the F1 doesn't seem to offer anything over the LMII apart from being smaller. Ive not even seen a F1 other than the pictures. I was just commenting on the similarities between the two and the price difference.
And i aslo said "I get the feeling" and i see you didnt highlight the whole sentence, just the bit you want to pick at.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

If the F1 has the tone you want, then it would offer a lot more over the LMII (as well as any other amp that didn't have that tone).

 

[dave_bass5]

If the F1 has the tone you want, then it would offer a lot more over the LMII (as well as any other amp that didn't have that tone).

I agree but what i was trying to say was that i THINK a lot of people will look at the spec's of the two amps and go for the cheaper of the two. Same set of knobs, same output only smaller.
But we need to wait and see if it does offer a tone you cant get with the LMII but judging by the difference between the SD800 and SA450 (if thats a fair comparison) its so close that once playing with a band i doubt you could hear the difference and so why spend a lot more.
but of course its always done to the individual.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I've planned on getting a LMII. If I try an F1 and it sounds the same (or close) to my ears, then I'll get the F1. People pay a lot for convenience. People also have their own reasons for everything. If I spec'd out a Fodera with identical specs to one of my basses, it would probably come in at about $3500 more. It's not as if Fodera is hurting for customers

 

[TobyPro4]

Certain people on here only ever seem to equate the LM11 with one thing - size.
People are buying this amp because it sounds superb, it punches well above it's weight and is attractively priced. The fact that it's small to me is nothing more than a big bonus.

I definitely get the impression some people on here think that small means sacrificing a good sound - almost as if it's a case of "well, I can either get a small amp or a great sounding amp" Well all I can say to anyone who thinks that is you obviously haven't actually tried or heard the LM11 because it's definitely the real deal.

And to those of you who seem to need a huge amp to make you feel adequate or validate you as a "real" bass player - for gods sake. I pity you guys, I really do

I'm looking forward to the day I can plug my bass into an amp the size of a cigarette box.

 

[TobyPro4]

Certain people on here only ever seem to equate the LM11 with one thing - size.
People are buying this amp because it sounds superb, it punches well above it's weight and is attractively priced. The fact that it's small to me is just a big bonus.

I definitely get the impression some people on here think that small means sacrificing a good sound - almost as if it's a case of "well, I can either get a small amp or a great sounding amp" Well all I can say to anyone who thinks that is you obviously haven't actually tried or heard the LM11 because it's definitely the real deal.

And to those of you who seem to need a huge amp to make you feel adequate or validate you as a "real" bass player - for gods sake. I pity you guys, I really do

As long as the sound quality is on the money, I'm looking forward to the day I can plug my bass into an amp the size of a cigarette box.

 

[Jeff Moote]

I'm not going to repeat myself just for the sake of emphasis. Read the above posts (mine, Brad's, Brian's and others) and you'll have the answers about these amps.

 

[jmain]

I'm not going to repeat myself just for the sake of emphasis. Read the above posts (mine, Brad's, Brian's and others) and you'll have the answers about these amps.

+

 

[dave_bass5]

Everyone is avoiding the real point: the F1 is not just a smaller LMII and doesn't sound the same. You're not paying 33% more for a bit smaller size, but for a different amp altogether that happens to be smaller. Of course since they are both Markbass heads they'll sound "similar", just like all Ampegs sound like Ampegs or all SWR sounds like SWR, but they aren't the same. Don't tell me a B2R sounds the same as an SVT...

But both MB heads have identical controls, identical output specs and i guess the F1 will have the MB sound so i dissagree they are Different altogether. to me it seems its just the power amp thats different and how much of a difference in tone does that make?
I agree they are different but i cant see how they wont be compared to each other if they both offer the same thing

 

[Infernal Affair]

Welp. We'll just find out when they come out, right? No sense debating something that won't be resolved until later this year.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

You must have gotten lost and accidentally ended up on TalkBass. We debate everything ad nauseum here whether or not we've seen it, tried it, or even heard of it