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Markbass F1 Pricing

#63
dave_bass5 said:
I didnt say that. i said the F1 doesn't seem to offer anything over the LMII apart from being smaller. Ive not even seen a F1 other than the pictures. I was just commenting on the similarities between the two and the price difference.
And i aslo said "I get the feeling" and i see you didnt highlight the whole sentence, just the bit you want to pick at.
Click to expand...


Was there anything else I could've highlighted that would make your post make sense?
:)

If you'd actually see what you'd actually said you might realize WHY I highlighted it. Maybe this will help...

"I get the feeling that because the F1 doesn't actually offer anything over the LMII apart from smaller size"


Do you see it yet? If it offers DIFFERENT SOUND, doesn't offer anything is wrong. Different sound is a thing.

I'm not trying to pick at you, I'm pointing out how seriously flawed what you said was. I know I don't know what it sounds like and you appear to be saying it doesn't offer anything different in the way of sound yet you haven't heard it either.

:D
 
#64
Bryan R. Tyler said:
You must have gotten lost and accidentally ended up on TalkBass. We debate everything ad nauseum here whether or not we've seen it, tried it, or even heard of it :D
Click to expand...


It's an interesting debate in that you have people on one side who know they don't know what the amp will sound like and would feel silly making a judgement call on it at this point and people on the other side who seem to know without so much as hearing it. Some even decided that MB is ripping people off based on this lack of knowledge... because even though it undercuts the competition's price, it doesn't beat the larger amp in it's own lineup. Now "that's" Talkbass.

:D
 
#66
Brad Johnson said:
Was there anything else I could've highlighted that would make your post make sense?
:)

If you'd actually see what you'd actually said you might realize WHY I highlighted it. Maybe this will help...

"I get the feeling that because the F1 doesn't actually offer anything over the LMII apart from smaller size"


Do you see it yet? If it offers DIFFERENT SOUND, doesn't offer anything is wrong. Different sound is a thing.

I'm not trying to pick at you, I'm pointing out how seriously flawed what you said was. I know I don't know what it sounds like and you appear to be saying it doesn't offer anything different in the way of sound yet you haven't heard it either.

:D
Click to expand...

What i was trying to say was that as we dont know how much the sound differs, but just looking at the spec's it is bound to get compared to the LMII which is very, very close on spec's. This is the bit you didnt highlight but i was trying to make a point. It just seemed to me that you took it out of context

The fact that this thread is so large seems to indicate that im right in thinking this whether it does sound different or not.
Even if it does some people might not like the sound so apart from being smaller it wont offer any thing more.
 
#68
dave_bass5 said:
What i was trying to say was that as we dont know how much the sound differs, but just looking at the spec's it is bound to get compared to the LMII which is very, very close on spec's.
Click to expand...
Specs are one thing, but they do not equate to sound. We do know how much it differs because some people have heard both!!

Even if it does some people might not like the sound so apart from being smaller it wont offer any thing more.
Click to expand...
Right - maybe it offers LESS (as far as that person is concerned). The point is, it's not the same and therefore there is a viable reason to put it on the market since some people will like it better.
 
#69
Jeff
I was only trying to justify why people are complaining about the price. I wasnt saying MB shouldnt sell it at that price
I mentioned the difference between the SD800 and SA450 but i never said the price of the SD800 wasnt justified either. I pointed out that if you want a digital power amp thats the price you have to pay. Same thing with the F1 and LMII but some people dont realise this and so think the only difference is size.
 
#70
Now, boys and girls, can we all play nicely please? :p

Let me clarify a few things:

1) As has been said, no-one here has yet heard the F1 and all that is being said is simply speculation. Time will tell how the market takes to the F1.

2) It is likely that the F1 will have a slightly different tone to the LMII. It is true to say that if that's the difference between nearly the tone you want and the actual tone you want then it's hard to put a value on that.

3) I am guessing (speculating - I do not know, nor does anyone else yet) that most people will choose between the F1 and LMII based on either size or price factors more so than sound (assuming they've narrowed their selection down to one or other of these amps and eliminated any competitor amps). Some people will say I'm talking out my @rse, but this is just my opinion - and just like @rseholes, everyone's got one! There may be gear heads on here who wouldn't understand any decision that wasn't based 100% on the sound, but we're talking about the mainstream and the majority who may be less discerning about the power amp differences than others.

4) New innovations are always welcome and can command a premium in the market. Against the competition, the F1 is not overpriced. However, the reality for many (again, the mainstream and the majority) is that, unless portability is of the utmost importance, then people will likely consider both the F1 and the LMII.

5) The LMII is a phenomenal amp regardless of price or size as has been said and I'm sure the F1 will be too. I have not questioned the quality of either and, frankly, it's not the point of this discussion.

6) The reason I started this thread is that Markbass appear to me (maybe not to others) to have made a rod for their own back because of the super-competive price of the LMII which makes the F1 appear expensive relative only to the LMII.

Point 6 is really the crux of it. I'm not arguing about the quality of either head. I'm not arguing about how similar or different the two heads are. Frankly, I'm not even arguing! :p What I am saying is that, simply, to me, Markbass' pricing policy is inconsistent.

To have this opinion, I don't need to know about their production processes. I don't need to know about their distribution agreements. I don't need to know their margin structure. I don't need to know if they use competitive baskets to price their amps or if they use a 'cost plus' method. I don't even need to play through the F1 head. I just need to look at the current pricing of their current range.

It is my opinion (that word again!) that, if Markbass want to charge a 33% premium for the F1 over the LMII then it may not sell in the volumes one might have thought. The flipside of this is that more LMII's are likely to be sold, albeit at a likely lower margin.

I was surprised when I first saw the pricing on Thomann and posted here firstly for information for the forum and secondly to see if my surprise was shared by others. As always, there are those that agree and those that disagree which is what makes TalkBass fun! :D All will be revealed in the fullness of time...;)
 
#71
dave_bass5 said:
Jeff
I was only trying to justify why people are complaining about the price. I wasnt saying MB shouldnt sell it at that price
I mentioned the difference between the SD800 and SA450 but i never said the price of the SD800 wasnt justified either. I pointed out that if you want a digital power amp thats the price you have to pay. Same thing with the F1 and LMII
Click to expand...

Hey - I'm not trying to argue. You posted in this thread with statements that it "doesn't seem to offer anything over the LMII apart from being smaller" which is just false.

Everything else doesn't matter - we're trying to correct this notion so as not to have incorrect information about this amp floating around our (usually) informative forum.
 
#72
dave_bass5 said:
What i was trying to say was that as we dont know how much the sound differs, but just looking at the spec's it is bound to get compared to the LMII which is very, very close on spec's. This is the bit you didnt highlight but i was trying to make a point. It just seemed to me that you took it out of context
Click to expand...

But that's not what you ACTUALLY SAID. There is no bit to highlight where you say that you don't know how much the sound differs... that remained in your head. I commented on what you actually wrote in that post.

If it's possible for me to take what you were TRYING to say (and clearly didn't) out of context...:D

Yes, it will get compared to the LMII... it's a newer, lighter Markbass amp. That some people will compare it knowing full well they don't know if it's different but happy to assume it is the same is baffling. It's not that complicated , is it.

The fact that this thread is so large seems to indicate that im right in thinking this whether it does sound different or not.
Click to expand...

This thread is so large because so many are assuming so much. That's all. Without these logicless flights of fancy we'd have a one-pager:D. Of course, it started out bad and went downhill from there.
:D

Even if it does some people might not like the sound so apart from being smaller it wont offer any thing more.
Click to expand...

Really? Ya think? What product can't you say that about?
:eyebrow:

If people don't see a value even in the event it sounds more like what they want than the LMII...:D
 
#75
Brad Johnson said:
But that's not what you ACTUALLY SAID. There is no bit to highlight where you say that you don't know how much the sound differs... that remained in your head. I commented on what you actually wrote in that post.

If it's possible for me to take what you were TRYING to say (and clearly didn't) out of context...:D

Yes, it will get compared to the LMII... it's a newer, lighter Markbass amp. That some people will compare it knowing full well they don't know if it's different but happy to assume it is the same is baffling. It's not that complicated , is it.



This thread is so large because so many are assuming so much. That's all. Without these logicless flights of fancy we'd have a one-pager:D. Of course, it started out bad and went downhill from there.
:D



Really? Ya think? What product can't you say that about?
:eyebrow:

If people don't see a value even in the event it sounds more like what they want than the LMII...:D
Click to expand...

you are of course welcome to your opinion
Have a nice day
 
#76
dave_bass5 said:
Jeff
I was only trying to justify why people are complaining about the price. I wasnt saying MB shouldnt sell it at that price
I mentioned the difference between the SD800 and SA450 but i never said the price of the SD800 wasnt justified either. I pointed out that if you want a digital power amp thats the price you have to pay. Same thing with the F1 and LMII but some people dont realise this and so think the only difference is size.
Click to expand...

People are complaining about the price for a very simple reason... they aren't thinking. Maybe they're completely ignorant of the market too. I know that may sound harsh but what other way is there to describe this?

Seriously. If they thought they'd know what the unknowns are and know that those unknowns could very easily shift the value proposition. Instead they are hellbent on assuming this is NOTHING MORE than a downsized, same powered LMII. People who think would at least want SOMETHING to base that on. Not here.

The power supplies are obviously different... that's no secret, right? It's on the same spec sheet that people keep saying is identical to the LMII. Apparently identical AND different.


CAN the power supply affect the sound? That's something a thinking person would consider. Instead... we have this thread.

:)
 
#77
The Penguin said:
Didn't you hear? They've sold tens of thousands of amps. They used to be in most bass booths at NAMM and have a huge endorser list. But I guess you're just here for the argument, that's down the hall :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Used to be, huh? Brilliant comeback.
:hmm:

Didn't you hear? They were bought by Gibson a few years ago. So this proves what about why people haven't embraced previously very expensive lightweight amp formats? Duh.

We were talking about Walter Woods sized amps and you throw in Trace Elliott. Because? You're not here for the "argument", you're here to make irrelevant posts.:rolleyes:


"Look at me... I can post on the interweb!"
:hyper:


:D
 
#79
dave_bass5 said:
And i still believe people wont buy the F1 for the sound as much as for the size based on the amount of people who have a SD800 compared to a LMII.
But that's just my opininon
Click to expand...

If they buy it for EITHER REASON, it matters because...?

You believe people won't buy it for the sound, the same sound you and they haven't heard yet. Did you believe the same about the LMII before it hit the streets?

The SD800 IIRC is $1199 here in the US. The LMII is $599. I can see why the LMII outselling the DOUBLE THE PRICE, DIFFERENT SD800 would be such a quandry.
;)
 
#80
THAT DOES IT!!!!
I've had just about enough.
I'm going to buy BOTH the LMII and the F1! (When it's available!).

That'll show MarkBass what's what, and will make ME the last word
in this ongoing, ummm. discussion about bass amplification-
Lighter, smaller, better, differing- power -sections et al!!!

so there.:cool:

:D
 

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