Markbass F1 Pricing

[snowdan]

The thing that keeps me from the LM2 really is the smaller EA IAMP 300 (about the same size as F1).

I'm damned curious how the LM2's 500 watts would compare to EA's 300 watts going into a 10" speaker.

both amps will be able to push the 10 into farting out well before clipping, so the extra 200 watt will likely be of no actual use. on the paper...

 

[Hawkeye]

+1 all the way on the above. It's a GREAT time to be a bassist!

+1 It's nice to have options, and never have their been more choices than there are now.

 

[BurningSkies]

Hey guys. I've been A/Bing my LMII and the SD800

(...)

The LMII has a certain warmth and sweetness that I'm not quite able to replicate with the SD800. The low end is a little fatter on the LMII and the treble response has what seems like just a touch of 'give' in it. When you really do an aggressive pop (i.e., the pop part of a slap and pop technique) using the LMII, the top end stays nice and pleasant and musical, and the low end provides a very nice fullness to the tone.

With the SD800, the treble feels a little more like the iAmp... VERY clean and crisp... maybe even a touch 'clinical' or sterile'. The low end, on the other hand, is similar to the Thunderfunk... tighter, quicker and punchier than the LMII.

(...)

I guess my feeling here is that if you aren't totally driven by the extreme small size of the F1, and don't need the massive headroom that the SD800 seems to provide (I obviously haven't gigged it yet), the LMII is just about the perfect combination and accurate, quick, but still a little 'warm' sounding, very lightweight and small, and quite loud (as loud as any other high quality 500 watt amp I've played).

Thanks for the quick comparison, Ken. Its another example of why your input has become a valuable asset for TB. I look forward to seeing a more comprehensive review and comparison once you've have a bit more time with both amps.

>>> Hey, I said I was "crotchety" not "decrepit"
Thanks for the insight 'Skies, I think that ties it up quite nicely.

Cheers,

Slug

Thanks, Man. I think this conversation has gotten away from the point of the thread, and I think the original post was working to stir the pot a bit too. From a real life perspective both products and pricing make perfect sense.

The eventual customer benefits for bass players are higher power in a smaller form-factor which is beneficial for some but as has already been stated by others, not enough of a reason to switch. Personally I just don't see the point when we're all lugging around 30 to 80 lb. cabinets.

I have to disagree with you here. I find the point IS the fact that we're lugging cabs to shows.

Rather than "Since I have to take 100lbs of amp, what's another 30 pounds going to matter?" school of thought I find myself trying to lighten/shrink the rest of my gear as much as possible. I'm fairly resigned to the fact that if I want the low end I require for my reggae gigs (at playing volume) I've probably maxed out the size/weight reduction with my cabs.

I'll save everywhere else. If I could throw my bass across my shoulder WITH the amp in it's gigbag pocket and take one cab in at the same time, I've reduced the number of trips to the car.

Last night I loaded in from rehearsal/recording and in one trip I brought in my:
Bass
Amp head
all cords cables and pieces
laptop with recording interface
PA head mixer (Soundcraft gigrack 1000st)

...and this was without having a shoulder strap gig bag or an amp in the gigbag. With a F-1 set up, I theoretically could have also taken one of my cabs at the same time!

 

[arbitrary]

That small EA is REALLY small. All I can say is that I find my LMII to put out significantly more ooomph than my EA iAmp500, so my guess is there won't be any comparison between the LMII and the very small EA. That being said, if you are only using a single 110, you wouldn't need the power anyway, and the EA300 might just be the ticket for very small gigs.
K

For my jazz gigs I've been using just a single 10 @ 8 ohms and that works plenty fine. I would imagine the iamp300 to put out 150-200 watts @ 8 ohms while the LM2 puts out 300.

But I also have another 8ohm 10" cab that I could use for larger than small gigs and run the load @ 4 ohms which puts the iamp @ 300 and the LM2 @ 500. Thats what I'm more concered about is using both 10" cabs @ 4 ohms and what the diff. is between the 2 amps in terms of volume output.

 

[Dragonlord]

I've A/Bed my Eden WT-550 with a LM2 and the LM seemed to have more headroom. In your position I would just go with the LMII, unless you really need to go even smaller than that... but compared even to the 110, these amps are all ridiculously small anyway, so I'd rather have the headroom.

 

[arbitrary]

I've A/Bed my Eden WT-550 with a LM2 and the LM seemed to have more headroom. In your position I would just go with the LMII, unless you really need to go even smaller than that... but compared even to the 110, these amps are all ridiculously small anyway, so I'd rather have the headroom.

Very true, I'm concered though that the LM2 won't fit into the pocket compartment on an incase slimbag. Anyone know if a LM2 will fit in the front zipper compartment on an incase slimbag?

 

[dave_bass5]

Ive mentioned this before in another thread but at my last few gigs using my UL115 and SA450 i find my cab has started to move around on stage. I guess this is because im playing quite loud and the floor is smooth but i now have to gaffer tape the cab to the certain stages.
Im wondering if this could be a problem in the future if we start to push a lot of watts through even lighter cabs.

Ken
I notice the low freq control is set differently on the LMII and SD800 (at least acording to the MB website). Do you think this might also contribute to the different sound?

 

[KJung]

Very true, I'm concered though that the LM2 won't fit into the pocket compartment on an incase slimbag. Anyone know if a LM2 will fit in the front zipper compartment on an incase slimbag?

It's really too deep for that. You could cram it it there, but it would create a 'bulge'. Interesting... I wonder if the F1 would fit in the laptop compartment. I don't think it would (assuming it still has that 10" by 11" footprint), but it might! That would be pretty cool.

I just put my SD800 in an SKB two space rack. It's pretty funny... it feels empty! This is a good thing!

K

 

[KJung]

Ive mentioned this before in another thread but at my last few gigs using my UL115 and SA450 i find my cab has started to move around on stage. I guess this is because im playing quite loud and the floor is smooth but i now have to gaffer tape the cab to the certain stages.
Im wondering if this could be a problem in the future if we start to push a lot of watts through even lighter cabs.

Ken
I notice the low freq control is set differently on the LMII and SD800 (at least acording to the MB website). Do you think this might also contribute to the different sound?

Hey! First... put some nice rubber feet on that cab and all your troubles will be over. I had the same issue with my Epi210UL, and just screwed in the rubber feet that you can get either at a good hardware store or from Musician's Friend, and it totally took care of the issue.

You know, I thought I read that the bass controls were set different also, with the SD800 being set higher at around 60hz, and the LMII set at 40. However, the documentation that came with the SD800 has the bass control listed at 40hz, and the frequency graphs look identical between the LMII and 800. So, who knows. Even with the bass control set 'flat', there is quite a difference in the low end 'character' of those two amps, and the 'enhance' type control seems actually usuable through more of its range for the 800 vs. the LMII, which gets quite scooped and 'wide' sounding very quickly with that control.

Both sound great, and given they are two very different amp designs (A/B vs. D), it does not surprise me that there are some noticeable differences in the tone.

I was also surprised to see a cooling fan on the side of the SD800, since most class D amps run cool enough to not need them. No big deal on that either!

K

 

[tombowlus]

Actually, I think the F1 is closer in size to the LMII than the little EA amp. Peter can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the footprint of the F1 is about the same as the LMII... about 10 by 11", but it is a couple inches or so less in height.

That small EA is REALLY small. All I can say is that I find my LMII to put out significantly more ooomph than my EA iAmp500, so my guess is there won't be any comparison between the LMII and the very small EA. That being said, if you are only using a single 110, you wouldn't need the power anyway, and the EA300 might just be the ticket for very small gigs.

K

I don't recall the exact dimensions of both, but FWIW, having seen and hefted all three at NAMM, the F1 is closer, overall, in size to the Micro 300 than it is to the LMII.

 

[KJung]

I don't recall the exact dimensions of both, but FWIW, having seen and hefted all three at NAMM, the F1 is closer, overall, in size to the Micro 300 than it is to the LMII.

Cool! I thought I read somewhere that it was still the 10 by 11 footprint.

Well, if that's the case, I would think the F1 would blow the 300 out of the water if volume was key. That actually changes my view of the F1 quite a bit. If it's truly 'micro size', and not just a thinner LMII, and still has the massive oomph of the LMII, I will be ordering one the minute they come out. Very cool if this is true!

 

[tombowlus]

Cool! I thought I read somewhere that it was still the 10 by 11 footprint.

Well, if that's the case, I would think the F1 would blow the 300 out of the water if volume was key. That actually changes my view of the F1 quite a bit. If it's truly 'micro size', and not just a thinner LMII, and still has the massive oomph of the LMII, I will be ordering one the minute they come out. Very cool if this is true!

The overall footprint might be the same or similar, but the F1 is so darned thin, it just really has the feel of a 'micro' head. Of course, the EA was smaller still and stupid light.

And the amp technology in the EA is scalable....

 

[KJung]

The overall footprint might be the same or similar, but the F1 is so darned thin, it just really has the feel of a 'micro' head. Of course, the EA was smaller still and stupid light.

And the amp technology in the EA is scalable....

+1..and the dual channel of the EA will be nice for doublers. If they get that F1 down to the size of a small laptop, it would fit in the laptop compartment of the PortaBag or Slimbag. THAT would be something.... 500 watts in your gig back pocket.

These guys at Markbass are starting to turn my basement orange

K

 

[tombowlus]

Based upon these shots, the footprint does appear to be similar, but IME, it is this very thin design that makes it 'feel' more like the Micro 300, at least that's my take. The overall mass is somewhere between the Micro 300 and LMII, for sure.

And yeah, that EA is really shallow...

 

[arbitrary]

It's really too deep for that. You could cram it it there, but it would create a 'bulge'. Interesting... I wonder if the F1 would fit in the laptop compartment. I don't think it would (assuming it still has that 10" by 11" footprint), but it might! That would be pretty cool.
K

Damnit! I could deal with a bulge, but would the zipper compartment still zip shut?
I bet the iamp 300 would fit.

 

[KJung]

Damnit! I could deal with a bulge, but would the zipper compartment still zip shut?
I bet the iamp 300 would fit.

Good news and bad news. The LMII does not really fit at all in the Slim Bag pocket (I just tried it). However, it looks like the F1 would fit in the notebook sleeve. The LMII would fit if if wasn't as tall... the width and depth dimensions seem to be fine.

So, you are probably good to go on the F1/Slimbag combo!

K

 

[ChocolateTV]

Why? It would make a heck of a lot more sense if you'd deal with the reality of the situation, unless you really want to come off like you're talking out of your arse.
...Sure... if you completely ignore what you do and don't know...Mission accomplished. You don't need to know ANYTHING about this to form an opinion other than price. At least you're honest about not really thinking about this, which is what I was talking about before...None of us know what the margin is on the LMII so stating that speculation not as speculation is just one more thing that's wrong with this...Because without that this thread makes no sense and holds no water.

Isn't it a shame that, rather than embracing Talkbass for what it is, for sharing and discussing news, views and opinions (yes, that's right, opinions), some people take the view that anyone sharing with an opposing view to their own is automatically wrong.

We're in the real world here and opinions will differ. At the end of the day, the consumers will make up their own minds between these amps.

I think that the level of debate in this thread shows that there are people who are put off by the price (yes, before hearing the F1), just as there are people who, if it sounds good, will part with the cash. If this is reflected by buyers when the F1 goes on sale then many WILL be sticking with the LMII or buying it in preference to the F1 if they don't already own one. This includes people who had previously stated an intention to swap their LMII for an F1 before they were aware of the price difference.

Differing opinions are what makes Talkbass so good. It's a shame some people are too full of themselves to realise that and have to ridicule others for disagreeing with them.

Brad has completely missed my point and I suggest he re-reads my posts. I see no value in contributing further to this thread as I don't want to lower myself into an on-line argument. Suffice to say that this thread has generated significant discussion on both sides. There's no right or wrong. Simply, some people will be put off by the price and some people won't.

I will have a chuckle, though, if when the press get their hands on the F1, that they summarise by saying 'great amp, but stick with the LMII unless you really need an amp this small'! We'll see...

 

[dave_bass5]

Hey! First... put some nice rubber feet on that cab and all your troubles will be over. I had the same issue with my Epi210UL, and just screwed in the rubber feet that you can get either at a good hardware store or from Musician's Friend, and it totally took care of the issue.

You know, I thought I read that the bass controls were set different also, with the SD800 being set higher at around 60hz, and the LMII set at 40. However, the documentation that came with the SD800 has the bass control listed at 40hz, and the frequency graphs look identical between the LMII and 800. So, who knows. Even with the bass control set 'flat', there is quite a difference in the low end 'character' of those two amps, and the 'enhance' type control seems actually usuable through more of its range for the 800 vs. the LMII, which gets quite scooped and 'wide' sounding very quickly with that control.

Both sound great, and given they are two very different amp designs (A/B vs. D), it does not surprise me that there are some noticeable differences in the tone.

I was also surprised to see a cooling fan on the side of the SD800, since most class D amps run cool enough to not need them. No big deal on that either!

K

Ken
As im selling the UL115 ill not bother with the feet but its a good idea. Do you think it would change the soudn of the cab in any way by taking the cab off the floor, even by a couple of inches? Im getting a UL212 and thats a bit heavier so maybe that will be ok but if not ill get some feet.

As for the SD800 and fan, seems to me that MB used the same box as the SA450 and just changed a few bits inside.
I wish i could afford the SD800 though.

 

[KJung]

Ken
As im selling the UL115 ill not bother with the feet but its a good idea. Do you think it would change the soudn of the cab in any way by taking the cab off the floor, even by a couple of inches? Im getting a UL212 and thats a bit heavier so maybe that will be ok but if not ill get some feet.

As for the SD800 and fan, seems to me that MB used the same box as the SA450 and just changed a few bits inside.
I wish i could afford the SD800 though.

It doesn't change the sound at all. Actually, without the feet, the Epi cabs sit up a touch on the protective corners. The rubber feet only raises the cab up about an inch more, and provides a very solid footing on any surface. The 212UL is large enough to put Nick's removable castors on.. that works nice, and they come with the rubber feet so that when you remove them (they clip in and out on 'slide plates' so you don't have to drill large holes in your cab), the cab sits on the rubber feet and not the metal plates.

The box size of the SD800 is the same as the 450, etc., but since the 800 is class D, it should run much more efficiently (hence less heat) than the more traditional class A/B design of the other Markbass heads. Usually, these class D amps (like the iAmp) don't need forced air cooling.

However, you make a good point. It was probably worth putting the fan into the 800 so they could use the same exact box... that probably saved them more money than the fan costs... and I guess its never a problem to have 'too much cooling capability'.

K

 

[Peter Murray]

Good news and bad news. The LMII does not really fit at all in the Slim Bag pocket (I just tried it). However, it looks like the F1 would fit in the notebook sleeve. The LMII would fit if if wasn't as tall... the width and depth dimensions seem to be fine.

So, you are probably good to go on the F1/Slimbag combo!

K

Here are the dimensions of the F1:
width: 10.87"
depth: 10.04"
height: 1.73"

The height of the Little Mark II is 2.8"

cheers,
Peter