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Me & the Music Minister

#21
Skeptismo said:
This isn't a confrontation regarding a spiritual deficiency, this is a "he's sipping my musical kool-aid" issue, so I don't think the Biblical confrontation method is really the way to go. Can you really imagine standing before your congregation, and informing them that Brother Jones has wronged you by stealing your sonic space?
Be wary that it isn't pride, or a sense of ownership that is bringing you down. If you are wrong in your heart, go ask his forgiveness and see what kind of results that brings.
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In my opinion, the MD would prefer to not be bothered with me, but that is not his call. He took the job knowing I am the bassist. If he has a problem with me, he needs to tell me, but honestly, I think he has no concept of working with a bassist. He knows I will work on songs. I have just been slow to put my foot down, and demand my space.
 
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#25
Dr. Cheese said:
Being a bit disruptive crossed my mind, but that would be a great way to bring the minister and congregation to his side.
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Why should the minister or the congregation get involved? Especially before the MD talks to you first. Solo and when he asks you what you're doing, nicely tell him you had to come up with something cause he was hogging the low end.
 
#26
OOD said:
Why should the minister or the congregation get involved? Especially before the MD talks to you first. Solo and when he asks you what you're doing, nicely tell him you had to come up with something cause he was hogging the low end.
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The minister has given the MD carte blanche, he really listens to no one, so he it would help
If he knew that my contribution is appreciated by the minister.
 
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#27
No need to get confrontational or passive aggressive. The guy is young and has been there a short time, so he's probably trying to establish himself. He may have come from a church with a smaller band where he had to cover more parts. He may have had an incompetent bass player, and felt he needed to pick up the slack. Who knows, until you talk to him and see where he's coming from.

My first step would be to talk to the MD. I would kindly and confidently tell him with a big smile before a service, "Don't worry brother, I got this. I'm here to serve, so let me play bass to make you and everyone else sound great, and help the people get their praise on. Can you work with me on this?" If he's a decent enough guy and you're sincere about wanting to serve, it'll be very difficult for him to say no.
 
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#28
WLs are like that. Many of them are brought up under a Nazi-style WL and think its their turn to lead the band like that. From my experience, it doesn't go away either. But, I've also found that playing under a WL is a lesson in humility and respect for titles, and its all about God not the band. I agree to talk to him and pray together, and alone, about it, but first take a few orders with grace to get him on your side. ;)
 
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#29
jive1 brings some excellent points. And remember, as Christians, we are tio do everything in love and to love the brethren. He may not even realize he is taking up "your sonic space". He may see it as making the worship better.
Talk to him. Communication is critical. Our first and foremost thing as members of worship teams is to come with our hearts prepared to worship so that we can lead our congregation to worship freely. It will be hard to do that with all this in the way.
Most importantly remember, as much as we all LOVE to play our music at church, it is the condition of our hearts going in that makes the difference. Everything else falls in place when we put Christ first.
 
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#30
I have no experience playing in a church setting, but the frustration of working with a keyboard player who instinctively plays left hand bass sure is familiar.

I'd agree with Jive1 (above) that going confrontational or passive/aggressive are not great options.

If the musical relationship is new, I wonder if maybe just sucking it up for a while and working on gaining the MD's musical respect would put you in a better position to discuss the matter later. Dunno--just pondering that as an option. Guess the likelihood of that approach being successful depends on the MD's personality.

And maybe putting a little more edge on your sound, to better differentiate you in that register, might be good.

It's a tough one, Dr. C--best of luck with it!
 
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#32
I am very fortunate at our church we have many talented musicians. Before I joined the PT all of our bassists are solid, but don't play the way I do. They mostly play root notes. Again very solid and hold the floor well.
When I came along, we had some issues with phasing between the bass and keys when they play the left hand under middle C.
With time and discussion when they got accustomed to my style they know I have the low end covered and it frees them up to do other things.
I hope you can work this out.
 
#33
Dr. Cheese said:
It also important to note that I have been playing at my church for 18 years, the MD has been there 8 months.
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Dr. Cheese said:
Even though he is twenty years younger than me
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Dr. Cheese said:
I think he has no concept of working with a bassist.
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That seems to be the heart of the matter. It may not be malicious and he may not even be aware of the adjustment that is needed by a keyboardist while playing with a bassplayer. That left hand has to move on up to the right! From your posts it really comes through that he is very inexperienced. As an elder and a deacon, perhaps it would be constructive for you to train him up in a gentle manner as he is part of the "youth" relative to your experience. That could mean befriending him, going out to see some live music or bonding the way we musicians do by sharing play/listening lists where the keyboard player and bass player respect each other's space. And reinforce it with "man they sound good when each lets each other play their own parts..." kind of talk, or even getting to know him and his accomplishments musically and most certainly sharing yours in a friendly way.

If he is new, he may feel he has something to prove to the congregation and board members (if any) and is still finding his place. If you develop mutual respect he will begin trust and value your instincts and your basslines.
 
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#34
jive1 said:
In the churches that I have performed at, everyone is listening. We provide the music for the congregation to sing along to, to get people into the spirit, and to augment the sermon and the message.
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jive1 said:
No need to get confrontational or passive aggressive. The guy is young and has been there a short time, so he's probably trying to establish himself. He may have come from a church with a smaller band where he had to cover more parts. He may have had an incompetent bass player, and felt he needed to pick up the slack. Who knows, until you talk to him and see where he's coming from.
My first step would be to talk to the MD. I would kindly and confidently tell him with a big smile before a service, "Don't worry brother, I got this. I'm here to serve, so let me play bass to make you and everyone else sound great, and help the people get their praise on. Can you work with me on this?" If he's a decent enough guy and you're sincere about wanting to serve, it'll be very difficult for him to say no.
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Excellent posts.. I have had this issue on more than one occasion, particularly with organists... (I have come to really dislike Leslies) . I suggest prayer and just talk to the man. Many folks who play in church constantly go on and on about how "It's all about God.. not about me.." but that is not true.. By nature people in the arts be they Christian or secular have to have a certain level of ego involved in what they do or they would not be able to do it... IMO the best that any musician can do is check their egos.. because I don't care what anyone says it is not possible to totally eliminate it. I think that perhaps in this case this person may not have an agenda per se but just be thinking more about himself and his role in the P&W as opposed to considering the role of the entire band.. Perhaps you are being used to convey to this man that he needs to rethink some of that.
 
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#36
I have played with left hand heavy keyboardists before. In one case, I just stopped playing. In the other case, I explained to him that he does not have to play basslines as there is a bassist playing. Most times he was playing the wrong notes so we would be clashing. I had the conversation with him. He could not stop it. I quit. I'm not saying for you to quit but I would definitely voice my concerns to the MD, the rest of the band and to the leader of the church. If this is making your church experience less than stellar, folks need to know and know why. Make a joyful noise. If the noise isn't joyful................
 
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#38
Talk to him and tell him that you are the bass player and he should not worry about playing the bass part, in my experience, drummers that does not learn the songs, people that ''help'' with the soundboard and keyboard players that does not know how to play in a band context is a normal situation in a church gig. You need to speak up brother.
 
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#39
  1. Any time you are playing with a keyboard it's an issue - other than the fact he was hired by the church, religion is irrelevant. Sometimes they don't realize. Time for a respectful, but firm, sitdown. Remind him that if he leaves you your sonic space, it frees him up. If he is unwilling to change, you have a decision to make.
 
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