Medium Scale vs. Long Scale Basses

[KingRazor]

Hello King Razor

Not a personal attack at all. Sorry you seem so "offended". I am simply suggesting that if you are weighing in on this topic, you should take the time to be familiar with both medium and long scales....

How familiar can you possibly be with the actual nuances and characteristics of a medium scale bass if you have never owned one? Last I looked that WAS the topic of this thread.

Might I suggest to you is that "Fret Noise" is the result of improper set up. I have no "Fret Noise" on any of my medium scale basses - in fact I find it quite laughable. For the record, I never had any fret noise on my long scales either.

I would heartily suggest that you get your hands on a premium medium scale bass (Not short scale) and spend some serious time with it. Then, I would heartily endorse and welcome any comments you may have.

Best,

BassHappy

I had reason to be, as you were, as you yourself said, "calling me out".

I was not trying to make some blanket statement about the playability of medium scale basses as a whole, just inferring something based on what I know about tension.

I can make any bass have fret noise if I play hard enough. The issue is whether it will have any during normal play. Yes, obviously setup has a major part to play in this. As do the strings. I've noticed with lower tension strings, most basses will have more fret noise when played hard than basses with heavier strings. I've noticed this on my own bass. It's had a variety of gauges on it, but the heavier gauge strings allow me to have much lower action and less relief than lighter gauges. The difference? Tension.

Therefore, knowing that a medium scale bass, due to simple physics, will have less tension on each string, I can assume that if I played one, that it would be more susceptable to fret noise than an equivalent long scale bass.

I don't even like the short list of 35" scale basses I've played, but they have even more tension than 34" scale basses, and if I played one I'd be able to use even lighter strings and still get away with the same amount of action and relief. Or use the same gauge of strings but even lower action and less relief.

But of course, how hard one plays, how the bass is setup, and the string gauges used will have far more of an effect on whether or not the bass will have excessive fret noise than scale length.

I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of this. I don't have anything against short or medium scale basses, to be honest I think they're cool and I've been wanting to try one for quite a while now. But that doesn't make my statement any less true.

 

[miles'tone]

Always owned long scale basses but I have to admit I'm really jazzed by the idea of those new Squier VM 32'' Telecaster basses.

 

[CTForde]

i feel that many bassists that get into electric assume that 34 is the 'right' scale because it is the predominant market offering.

as some here have mentioned i have found that for me - the shorter scale (i used to play 30 - have now settled on 32) was somewhat of a revelation for my musicianship as it gets me more connected to the instrument and less conscious of my playing.

... but that doesn't take away from those who feel that same way about their full-size upright or 35 five-string.

 

[grrg63]

Always owned long scale basses but I have to admit I'm really jazzed by the idea of those new Squier VM 32'' Telecaster basses.

I switched to short scales around 20 years ago but I couldnt resist the Tele Special with the humbucker and I absolutely love the sound of it. It has a deep presence that my ss dont. I dont know if thats from the extra weight of the big slab body or the hb or both, but I love it. The extra 2 inches of the neck really isnt a problem either.

 

[Indiedog]

Most of you folks know way more than me so my few points are quite simple:

>as many have said, there are so many variables with every bass so I think scale length cannot easily be singled out with "absolute" statements.
>any fine bass sound is much more about the player, not the equipment

But mostly, my above comments are merely a sham in order to say on the record here that I am a huge fan of Happy the Man and especially, "BassHappy's" style and tone. Thank you for all of the great music and especially, the motivation to play!

OK, back to the topic...

 

[jweber76]

I have strung shorty basses with long scale strings... You're not supposed to do it, I'm sure there's a good reason for not doing it... I have never had any problems with it.

 

[CTForde]

i honestly don't know what the good reason not to do it would be.
yes - cutting a thicker longscale E or B to lenght to fit into a standard tuner on say a 30" bass will needs some adating of that string and or the tuner - but is there another reason i'm not aware off not to put 34 scale strings on my 32?

 

[Shardik]

I have tuned down my two basses (34") to DGCF tuning rather than the usual EADG.

Except for the open strings on a short scale tuned to EADG, what would be the real difference between playing a shorter scale instrument tuned to EADG and my basses, tuned to DGCF?

To me the difference is this: When all else is equal (string gauge and tension), the 34" gives me about a whole note deeper bass than a 30-32" bass. Or are there other important differences that I am missing?

And BTW, the DGCF tuning is not a "deeper is better" choice (where would that end?), it is simply because a lot of the songs I am playing is in D, G or C, and then a DGCF tuning is really useful.

 

[EduardoK]

Just to remind you guys there is a Medium Scale Owners Club thread here at TB, if you care to join.
I have owned dozens of basses (still own way too many) of all scale lengths and I am a big fan of short and medium scales (I consider 33" to be a medium scale also, because that 1-inch really makes a difference ergonomically speaking when compared to 34").
Each bass is different regardless of it's scale length, that is the beauty of it all: diversity.
To each his own.
The important thing is you feel comfortable with it ergonomically (scale length being just one of many factors in that equation) and that you don't need to struggle or fight with the instrument. The aim is to really bond with your bass and make it feel as a natural extension to your body so you can express yourself to your own optimum/maximum capability without added ergonomic factors obstructing or interfering in your way.
That being said and in spite of favoring a shorter scale myself (but I would never want to find myself without my preferred 34 inchers) I think Leo had it right when he settled for a 34" particularly considering the available technology, materials and limitations of string manufacturing, which by the way has not changed that much since then.
Gouge is not the only factor in determining string tension, a round core string will likely have less tension than a hex core string. Some players prefer lower tension while others favor high tension, choosing the tension that is/feels right depends on the player, his/her technique, and fretwork-setup of the instrument. I am a strong believer in finding the strings that are/feel right for you in relation to your tone goal with a specific instrument, and that finding THE right string set for your playing a particular bass can make a big difference.
Generally speaking there is no reason why a shorter scale should be more prone to produce more fret noise. Again, this depends on the relation amongst your technique, string tension and fret job/setting of that particular instrument.
Do shorter scales sound beefier? Do longer scales sound better? Nope, not necessarily. At least not because of the scale in itself, although the inherent limitations of current string manufacturing materials and processes certainly do play a role in the results regarding string movement, flexibility and tension, let alone TONE. After all a string must oscillate in order to vibrate and be able to produce a sound. Not even the best luthier can ignore the laws of Physics involved in the process as well as string availability.
Hope you'll excuse the lengthy comment, there have been dozens of threads that deal with these issues.

 

[EduardoK]

i honestly don't know what the good reason not to do it would be.
yes - cutting a thicker longscale E or B to lenght to fit into a standard tuner on say a 30" bass will needs some adating of that string and or the tuner - but is there another reason i'm not aware off not to put 34 scale strings on my 32?

It is not really about fitting in the tuner (although you certainly want that string to fit...LOL), mormoboy. There is absolutely nothing wrong or against using 34" strings on a shorter scale bass. The only real potential problem is in relation to the wounds that form the string. Ideally, you don't wish having way to many wounds around the tuner pole (most would say 3-4 wounds are enough). Therefore you'll have to cut the end of the string accordingly before installation. Ideally you'd want the cut to fall at the ending portion of the string, where there are less or no wounds at all around the core of the string. When you only cut through the core there is no problem whatsoever.
If you cut (particularly on the E and maybe A strings) a large string to fit a short scale, it is very likely you'll have to cut through the actual string woundings, not just the core.
When this is the case, there is a chance the wounds around the core of the string will pretty soon (or immediately) start to unwound as you tune up to bring that string to proper tension. You really don't want that to happen, believe me! I've screwed quite a few good new strings like that...LOL
There's really not much you can do for that string if this should happen, you'll notice the wound "peeling" off from the core, tension in the string lowering abruptly and the un-wounding will just continue the more you re-try tuning up. String itself might break.

You can lesser the chance of this to happen if you're really good and careful in the way you wound the string ending around the tuner's pole at installation, but the chance of the "un-wounding" menace is always there and might actually happen.
This scenario is the main and only reason (IMHO) against using normal length strings on shorter scales. All else is BS.
I use 34 strings on my shorter scales VERY often!

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I have strung shorty basses with long scale strings... You're not supposed to do it, I'm sure there's a good reason for not doing it... I have never had any problems with it.

The fat part of a stiffer flatwound E doesn't like to go around a thinner tuner post and can break. It's not a common thing to have happen though and I've never experienced it with roundwounds or TI flats. The only other issue I've had is with the hole in the guitar tuners on a Jerry Jones being too small to accept a cut down E string. Other than these two cases I've used long scale strings on short and medium scale basses for years with no issues.

You do hear people talking about some flatwound sets coming apart if you cut them past the silk. I've never tried it myself but the fix some have used is to give a shot of super glue where you're gonna cut the string and another dab after you cut it.

 

[miles'tone]

I switched to short scales around 20 years ago but I couldnt resist the Tele Special with the humbucker and I absolutely love the sound of it. It has a deep presence that my ss dont. I dont know if thats from the extra weight of the big slab body or the hb or both, but I love it. The extra 2 inches of the neck really isnt a problem either.

Nice! I really feel Squier have made massive leaps forward these past few years and with this med.scale Tele bass they are actually offering something that big Bro Fender never has!
When you say 'heavy slab body', how heavy does the whole bass weigh in at? I know each bass is an individual it's just I have back probs these days so the shorter reach 32 I was hoping would equate to a lighter bass.
I think both the standard and special sound as good as they look from the youtube vids I've seen of them.

 

[TapyTap]

There's really not much you can do for that string if this should happen, you'll notice the wound "peeling" off from the core, tension in the string lowering abruptly and the un-wounding will just continue the more you re-try tuning up. String itself might break.

This is one of the reasons I am interested in the Hipshot Headless Bass System for a 32" scale instrument.

 

[spiritbass]

It is not really about fitting in the tuner (although you certainly want that string to fit...LOL), mormoboy. There is absolutely nothing wrong or against using 34" strings on a shorter scale bass. The only real potential problem is in relation to the wounds that form the string. Ideally, you don't wish having way to many wounds around the tuner pole (most would say 3-4 wounds are enough). Therefore you'll have to cut the end of the string accordingly before installation. Ideally you'd want the cut to fall at the ending portion of the string, where there are less or no wounds at all around the core of the string. When you only cut through the core there is no problem whatsoever.
If you cut (particularly on the E and maybe A strings) a large string to fit a short scale, it is very likely you'll have to cut through the actual string woundings, not just the core.
When this is the case, there is a chance the wounds around the core of the string will pretty soon (or immediately) start to unwound as you tune up to bring that string to proper tension. You really don't want that to happen, believe me! I've screwed quite a few good new strings like that...LOL
There's really not much you can do for that string if this should happen, you'll notice the wound "peeling" off from the core, tension in the string lowering abruptly and the un-wounding will just continue the more you re-try tuning up. String itself might break.

You can lesser the chance of this to happen if you're really good and careful in the way you wound the string ending around the tuner's pole at installation, but the chance of the "un-wounding" menace is always there and might actually happen.
This scenario is the main and only reason (IMHO) against using normal length strings on shorter scales. All else is BS.
I use 34 strings on my shorter scales VERY often!

I don't recall which brand they were, but when reading the instructions before installing (I know - what a concept, huh?) these strings, they recommend bending them ninety degrees before trimming. I always assumed the reason was to prevent any un-winding. Seems like it would be a good precaution before trimming any brand or style of string!

 

[grrg63]

Nice! I really feel Squier have made massive leaps forward these past few years and with this med.scale Tele bass they are actually offering something that big Bro Fender never has!
When you say 'heavy slab body', how heavy does the whole bass weigh in at? I know each bass is an individual it's just I have back probs these days so the shorter reach 32 I was hoping would equate to a lighter bass.
I think both the standard and special sound as good as they look from the youtube vids I've seen of them.

Not sure what it weighs exactly, I would say about the same as an average 34in. Fender type bass. I have back issues too, but its not causing me any problems. It definitely weighs more than my ss, but its worth it for the sound. Try Before You Buy! (if possible)

 

[miles'tone]

Not sure what it weighs exactly, I would say about the same as an average 34in. Fender type bass. I have back issues too, but its not causing me any problems. It definitely weighs more than my ss, but its worth it for the sound. Try Before You Buy! (if possible)

Thanks I will.

 

[Tom Howland]

34" is my scale of choice because it it what I've played the most.
30.5 is just to cramped after the 12 fret.
I just played a Fano Px4 32" scale. And it was nice.
Very comfortable to play,sounded a little tighter than a 30.5 short scale bass.
I no gas for the Fano.

 

[BassHappy]

Couldn't resist - stumbled on this older thread and had to chuckle. Is it just me or is there a growing acceptance of "less-than" long scales on here?

Seriously, most players prove they would just plain prefer to spend their hard-earned money on Fender scale basses. Even women would rather play a man-sized bass.

Wow - Fender scale basses??????????

Like these?

All in medium scale.....

Most of you folks know way more than me so my few points are quite simple:

>as many have said, there are so many variables with every bass so I think scale length cannot easily be singled out with "absolute" statements.

>any fine bass sound is much more about the player, not the equipment

But mostly, my above comments are merely a sham in order to say on the record here that I am a huge fan of Happy the Man and especially, "BassHappy's" style and tone. Thank you for all of the great music and especially, the motivation to play!

OK, back to the topic...

Sorry I missed this first time around - thanks so much for the kind words.....

I know it's an old thread. Comment as you see fit.

BassHappy
www.innertainment.net

 

[CTForde]

It does feel like there are fewer nay-Sayers ...
I have found that 32 really does w trick for me - I'm still comfortable switching to a 'regular' scale 34 bass, but benefit from less finger stretch overall...

 

[Indiedog]

Hey BassHappy!

Thanks for your response! And I am serious...your playing constantly amazes me; it is "off the scale". (LOL)

Thanks for all the music!