I like massive deep tones and I've heard the 400+ might not be the right choice for this type of tones. Do you confirm?
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Mesa/Boogie Titan V12 megathread!
- Thread starter Krügmeister
- Start date
Yeah ...the 400+ I own definately sounds massive...to be honest with you I'm kind of scared of it because its so intensely loud and and massive at the vol setting 2 .5 that it feels like "its alive " and its going to " jump off the stage" and take over kind of feeling. If you have heard the Who "Live At Leeds" song "Magic Bus"....that is the tone that best approximates what my 400+ sounds like...l like it like that and could make it sound more pillowy by cutting mids and treble and boosting bass a bit. Its more of a one trick pony....not as versitile as the Titan. The 400+ hass rock and roll tone to die for....but its definately so "massive" its harder to do subtle. That last sentence maybe totally unfair because I haven't played out with my 400+ very often because I got my Titan at the same time so I just haven't learned to tame the ?400+ yet. There is a Mesa 400+ club on TB if you want to hear from more experienced 400+ players.Peace...
DAcat
Hunt down a Genz Benz GBE 1200. Similar power/volume to the Titan and rock solid reliability. It's another heavy lead sled but I don't think that is a problem for a pro like you.
If I had to downsize my collection and was only allowed to keep one touring quality amp it would be the GBE1200. It's the most versatile and easiest to dial in.
You can coax it to give tones similar to the Titan and SVT, but you have to use channel blending and get pretty aggressive with the EQ. I set the FET channel clean with the basic tone contour that I want. If I want huge lows and heft with a bit of give, I dial up a huge bass and low mid boost on the tube channel and set the input gain so the channel is right on the edge of distortion. Next I blend the tube channel in with the FET channel to get the feel and thickness I am after. Basically, you just hear the EQ peaks and a little drive from the tube channel. You can use the same trick on the upper mids to get a bit of grind similar to an SVT.
The Genz also works well as a channel switcher and has a well thought out footswitch, but I think it sounds best with the channels blended, so I never use the footswitch.
FYI, the 400+ makes a little less power than an SVT. Both are awesome amps, but I am confident a Titan or GBE1200 will bury either on a big fest stage.
Funny you talk about the GBE 1200 as I really considere buying one. It also has the 110V/200V switch and I read
@agedhorse said it's been designed to work properly without any air to breath.
It's a bit heavy but I've gigged the SVT 4 Pro for many years and got used to it,so the GBE shouldn't be a problem
@agedhorse said it's been designed to work properly without any air to breath.
It's a bit heavy but I've gigged the SVT 4 Pro for many years and got used to it,so the GBE shouldn't be a problem
Wasnex,
Nice idea re: the Genz Benz 1200. I had one myself and I was very impressed with it...and surprised that I didn't remember it and didn't bring up the same point. The GB 1200 is almost a twin of the Mesa Titan and similar in weight and is similar in that it has two channels as well, but one is a hybrid similar to a Titan channel, and the other is a pure FET channel. And it has the beautiful heavy duty chrome like the chrome Titans( like mine). And regarding power output...
550 W/1000 W/1200 W
8 ohm / 4 ohm / 2 ohm
so its probably slightly less powrful than the Titan.
I really liked the GBE, and not sure why I got rid of it ...probably gas mostly, but I think it was just a little too clean for me...But it was a great amp.
I still feel after owning both amps the Mesa 400+ is a louder more cut thru the mix amp than the SVT( using the same cabs) esp if you use 2 40hm cabs...but , just my opinion. Peace Brother,
DAcat
Nice idea re: the Genz Benz 1200. I had one myself and I was very impressed with it...and surprised that I didn't remember it and didn't bring up the same point. The GB 1200 is almost a twin of the Mesa Titan and similar in weight and is similar in that it has two channels as well, but one is a hybrid similar to a Titan channel, and the other is a pure FET channel. And it has the beautiful heavy duty chrome like the chrome Titans( like mine). And regarding power output...
550 W/1000 W/1200 W
8 ohm / 4 ohm / 2 ohm
so its probably slightly less powrful than the Titan.
I really liked the GBE, and not sure why I got rid of it ...probably gas mostly, but I think it was just a little too clean for me...But it was a great amp.
I still feel after owning both amps the Mesa 400+ is a louder more cut thru the mix amp than the SVT( using the same cabs) esp if you use 2 40hm cabs...but , just my opinion. Peace Brother,
DAcat
Wasnex,
Nice idea re: the Genz Benz 1200. I had one myself and I was very impressed with it...and surprised that I didn't remember it and didn't bring up the same point. The GB 1200 is almost a twin of the Mesa Titan and similar in weight and is similar in that it has two channels as well, but one is a hybrid similar to a Titan channel, and the other is a pure FET channel. And it has the beautiful heavy duty chrome like the chrome Titans( like mine). And regarding power output...
550 W/1000 W/1200 W
8 ohm / 4 ohm / 2 ohm
so its probably slightly less powrful than the Titan.
I really liked the GBE, and not sure why I got rid of it ...probably gas mostly, but I think it was just a little too clean for me...But it was a great amp.
I still feel after owning both amps the Mesa 400+ is a louder more cut thru the mix amp than the SVT( using the same cabs) esp if you use 2 40hm cabs...but , just my opinion. Peace Brother,
DAcat
No worries and I don't think we really even disagree. I wouldn't be surprised if the Mesa can be dialed in to cut through the mix a bit better than the SVT given the graphic EQ, but that's not quite the same as having more power...basically I think we are making different points.
From what I have read 400+s typically push around 260 watts and 6550 equipped SVTs typically push around 265. This is their clean bench power with relativley low THD. Obviously these amps can make a lot more power, but it gets progressively dirtier and compressed. I can run both of my SVTs full out into my EVMs 18Bs and it sounds great.
I think @baxter_x probably needs a bit more juice as he plays large fest stages and really cranks the volume. The Titan and GBE1200 spec out at 1200 VS 1000 watts at 4 ohms. Both have enough power to shred my EVM 18Bs, so I can't compare them directly. I do know that both amps play louder clean than my SVTs running flat out.
I agree, the natural voice of the GBE is very clean and hifi, but you can work wonders if you play around with gain, EQ, and channel blending...it's an extremely versatile head.
I believe the Titan and GBE are very close regarding weight. I don't think you will notice the difference.
The GBE does need air, but flow through the amp is very efficient. I don't think you will need an extra fan in your rack case as long as the amp can blow the air out the back.
It's a big sounding amp, but the natural voice is more hifi and refined than the Titan. If you get a chance to try one out, don't be afraid to go crazy with the gain and tone controls if you want to get a more raw and aggressive sound like the Titan. With the right settings you can get reasonably close.
I doubt I could here the difference
And what about against the Titan?
Great!
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
- 5
- 220,768
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
NO extra fan is needed with the GBE-1200, in fact I recommend against using any external cooling that might inhibit the designed in cooling system.
That's the kind of things I like to read
How would you compare both? Which one do you prefer? I guess the Titan is way more massive and powerful thanks its 1200W
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Old rule of thumb I was taught, tube amp = solid state with approx 3 times the wattage, so the power of the Strategy is every bit the equal of my Titan. Titan has a very sweet distortion built in, but for pure tone, IMO you can't beat Tubes.That's the kind of things I like to read
How would you compare both? Which one do you prefer? I guess the Titan is way more massive and powerful thanks its 1200W
My SVTs are rated 300 watts at 4 ohms and and my GBE 1200 is rated for 1000 watts at 4 ohms. That's pretty close to your 3X rule. The GBE is way louder than the SVTs...it's not even close. I also have a GK RB700 that is rated at 380 watts in to 4 ohms. The GK is also noticeably louder than the SVTs. Both SVTs have good tubes, fresh cap jobs, and are biased properly. They are louder than my 200 watt tube amps, but not as loud as my 400 watt tube amps. I am sure they are both functioning properly.
Sorry, but watts are watts.
I am sure the Strategy is awesome and it is one of the rare few all-tube bass amps that is currently in production that might meet @baxter_x 's volume requirements. From the Mesa Strategy manual, p.10, "...approximately 465 watts RMS of tube power—that sounds and feels more like 900." The other possible contender is the Reeves 400 which is about 40 watts down on the Strategy.
Of course the Reeves 400 and Mesa Strategy are super cheap in the EU, so he should buy one of each
.
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I tend to agree as I have noticed the same when I compared my Ampeg SVT 4 Pro against a rented SVT 2 Pro. The master on the SVT2 Pro was way higher then the SVT 4 Pro to achieve the same perceived volume. And the SVT 2 could be pushed almost to its limit while the SVT 4 had still a lot of deafening headroom.
Oh yeah! That's the main issue with most of the gear coming from the US. As example, the Titan was sold around 3200€ when it was still available. The Strategy is currently available at around 3700€.... Yes, it seriously hurts.
Why? Is it warmer, cuts better throught the mix...?
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,986
- 5
- 220,768
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Regarding the GBE-1200, there were quite a few doing touring duty back in the day, and between the GBE-1200 and 750 (essentially the same amp with lower power), there are thousands of these amps out there. Stretching it, I see maybe 1 a year in the shop if even that. Sometimes it's due to getting dropped or a physical accident like something falling on the amp and taking out some knobs. I haven't seen a power amp or power supply fault in 3 or 4 years. This was a super heavy duty, overbuilt amp, the downside is that it's on the expensive, large and heavy side, and such amps are really falling out of favor. These models are still fully supported and I have all the necessary parts in stock to repair if needed.
If anybody is looking for a GBE-1200, one of my touring buddies is selling his mint back-up. He carried 2 in his rig plus a back-up in the original box which was never needed. PM me if interested.
If anybody is looking for a GBE-1200, one of my touring buddies is selling his mint back-up. He carried 2 in his rig plus a back-up in the original box which was never needed. PM me if interested.
Well well well.... That's way too much geat rumors about the reliability of the amps.... I really need to try one of these. I just hope I'll find my tone like with the Titan.
Well if you remember the Titan that I owned had never been back to Mesa for any service, and I was hesitant to keep it given the history of problems. I returned it to Guitar Center within their free return window and never looked back. I think you will be impressed with the Genz unit if you decide to get one?
