That's exactly why it would be even more sweet if Mesa made some updated Scout extension cabs.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Mesa Boogie Walkabout Mega-thread Part 10
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
I crave none of those things, and please do not put words in mouth. This gig was a trio, in a record store, playing Rockabilly at reasonable volume, with an efficient cab. It just did not cleanly get louder when I needed more volume. My post was referring to another post about using more efficient cabs to get more clean volume from the WA.
I think you misunderstood my words and intentions. Sorry about that. I was meaning that the WA has its own nature. The way it behaves and the limited horsepower are not helpful if you want clean power. Maybe using a different cab, or, better, a big cab, like a 4x12 or 810 can maximize even that lowest part of the WA spectrum, but it's just its nature to become coloured and dirty very quickly as you turn the knobs. In fact, it doesn't sound totally clean even at low gain and volume settings to my ear, just like a proper tube influence should be. This is one of the reasons because I like it so much. I think you probably could be one of those guys who can actually gain a great advantage if Mesa comes out with a beefed up version of the WA, but it's clear it will not happen, for technical and commercial reasons. Adding speakers will be better anyway, but not practical. Watts are cheap these days, but the WA is unique
EdwardofHuncote
I Still Dream of Jeannie
- Aug 21, 2013
- 6,648
- 2
- 16,414
- Disclosures
- I privately own and operate a local musical instument repair shop.
@lomo-
I'll tell you what's comical- watching a middle-aged, slightly overweight bass player trying to move one of them in a hurry, to escape a swiftly approching thunderstorm while at an outdoor gig.
Eventually, I bought a collapsible 2-wheel dolly and started keeping a good heavy-duty leaf-n-lawn bag in the gig bag. I might still have some game musically, but I'm too old and out of shape for that.
I have often contemplated a lid-over road case on casters for the Scout 15, but then I'd need help getting it in the car.
I'll just deal with it, because like you said- that combo is pretty sweet. 
I'll tell you what's comical- watching a middle-aged, slightly overweight bass player trying to move one of them in a hurry, to escape a swiftly approching thunderstorm while at an outdoor gig.
Eventually, I bought a collapsible 2-wheel dolly and started keeping a good heavy-duty leaf-n-lawn bag in the gig bag. I might still have some game musically, but I'm too old and out of shape for that.
I have often contemplated a lid-over road case on casters for the Scout 15, but then I'd need help getting it in the car.
I'll just deal with it, because like you said- that combo is pretty sweet. 
Any of our technical brothers compared the power section of the Handbox R-400 to the WA? Similar design that they are getting 400w. I will say I'm more than tempted to buy one based on TB feedback on it.
Probably mentioned earlier somewhere, but worth mentioning again, the Scout cabs sound 100% better when sitting directly on the floor. The passive radiator needs to couple with the floor for that extended fat bottom end. Try comparing Scout cabs stacked, and then both on the floor. Also, take advantage of corner loading every time you can. Sometimes if I'm positioned out front, I'll put one of the cabs in the corner with a long cable. These two things are worth about a hundred watts in themselves (headroom).
Also, the later cabs are loaded with Alnico drivers not neodymium, so they are quite a bit heavier. I'm thinking I'll get a celestion neo 15 to replace the heavy ass driver in my combo15 cab. Just to see how it does. Anybody done this?
Also, the later cabs are loaded with Alnico drivers not neodymium, so they are quite a bit heavier. I'm thinking I'll get a celestion neo 15 to replace the heavy ass driver in my combo15 cab. Just to see how it does. Anybody done this?
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,970
- 5
- 220,703
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
If you replace the driver, you want to be darn sure that the cabinet's tuning is appropriate for the new driver. With a passive radiator, you can't calculate it and have to determine the tuning and displacement empirically.
- Nov 19, 2016
- 158
- 515
- Disclosures
- backline tech - Mesa Boogie, Aguilar.
Be careful, part of the magic sound of the Walkabout/Scout combo is the proprietary speaker. The general consensus is that neo drivers don't have the warmth that heavier drivers produce, so you might end up with a Scout combo that doesn't have that special sound that makes it so popular.
To all the talk about the HandBox R-400 being a "Walkabout Killer":
My R-400 showed up today. After playing with it for a couple hours, and even doing some A/B comparisons with the Walkabout, I'm not ready to say this thing is a higher-output replacement for the Walkabout. Here's my impression:
-The R-400 has a TON more clean headroom than the Walkabout. It projects amazingly well; you can just slap on your bass with all you got, and it pops!
-No mid control; just bass and treble EQ knobs, and a contour knob that (unlike Mesa's attempts) actually does something. All the way left, it's completely flat, and all the way right, it's a big mid scoop that is more bass than treble boost. I like it at around 9:00, just above flat. I don't miss a mid-EQ adjustment at all.
-The gain doesn't give you any dirt/grind until the 1:00mark (the word "crunch" is printed at that marker). It's not as grindy as the Walkabout's distortion. The R-400 has 3 x 12AX7 tubes, and they generate a more flappy-sounding distortion. Definitely not as mean-sounding as the Walkabout. With the gain at 3:00 on both amps, this difference is obvious. Also, the R-400's distortion is more pronounced in the lower frequencies, and not so much on the G string. It's there, just more subtle.
-With the gain around 11:00, changing from fingerstyle to slap/pop/funk, the R-400 vaults itself way past the Walkabout. When the thumb and finger start working, it turns into a different amp without touching a knob. The punch this thing packs is insane. I had to do all kinds of screwing around with the EQ on the WA to get it in the same neighborhood as the R-400, and it still didn't sound nearly as good.
In conclusion, I think that funk, groove, pop, and related style players will pick the R-400 in a heartbeat. My first thought was: "This is how the Carbine amps should have sounded!". However, I'm a metal and punk player, and I'm not ready to sell my Walkabout just yet. It packs that mean, natural-sounding distortion that I've never been able to pull from any other amp.
I'm going to take both amps to band practice and see how they both sound in a different room. Plus, my band will provide feedback on both amps, and I'll make a decision on which I'm moving forward with. Even if I start gigging the R-400, I'l probably keep my Walkabout around, as it's the most unique-sounding high-gain amp I've ever owned.
My R-400 showed up today. After playing with it for a couple hours, and even doing some A/B comparisons with the Walkabout, I'm not ready to say this thing is a higher-output replacement for the Walkabout. Here's my impression:
-The R-400 has a TON more clean headroom than the Walkabout. It projects amazingly well; you can just slap on your bass with all you got, and it pops!
-No mid control; just bass and treble EQ knobs, and a contour knob that (unlike Mesa's attempts) actually does something. All the way left, it's completely flat, and all the way right, it's a big mid scoop that is more bass than treble boost. I like it at around 9:00, just above flat. I don't miss a mid-EQ adjustment at all.
-The gain doesn't give you any dirt/grind until the 1:00mark (the word "crunch" is printed at that marker). It's not as grindy as the Walkabout's distortion. The R-400 has 3 x 12AX7 tubes, and they generate a more flappy-sounding distortion. Definitely not as mean-sounding as the Walkabout. With the gain at 3:00 on both amps, this difference is obvious. Also, the R-400's distortion is more pronounced in the lower frequencies, and not so much on the G string. It's there, just more subtle.
-With the gain around 11:00, changing from fingerstyle to slap/pop/funk, the R-400 vaults itself way past the Walkabout. When the thumb and finger start working, it turns into a different amp without touching a knob. The punch this thing packs is insane. I had to do all kinds of screwing around with the EQ on the WA to get it in the same neighborhood as the R-400, and it still didn't sound nearly as good.
In conclusion, I think that funk, groove, pop, and related style players will pick the R-400 in a heartbeat. My first thought was: "This is how the Carbine amps should have sounded!". However, I'm a metal and punk player, and I'm not ready to sell my Walkabout just yet. It packs that mean, natural-sounding distortion that I've never been able to pull from any other amp.
I'm going to take both amps to band practice and see how they both sound in a different room. Plus, my band will provide feedback on both amps, and I'll make a decision on which I'm moving forward with. Even if I start gigging the R-400, I'l probably keep my Walkabout around, as it's the most unique-sounding high-gain amp I've ever owned.
Respectfully: I don't hear anything different from neo drivers than those with heavier magnets, and I disagree that there's a "general consensus" to the contrary, although there are certainly many who do believe that's true and 2)I am pretty sure there was quite a long period when Scout cabs were built with neo drivers (before the price climbed). As I recall, when I bought my 1st Walkabout combo (some years ago), it was advertised as having a light, neo driver.....sounded just like the Walkabouts I have owned since, including my current one.
My two 12" cabs both have neo drivers, which were part of the attraction/marketing with having such a lightweight cab that sounded so impressive (which I feel mine do). I bought the 15 combo cab not realizing that it had a later alnico driver. Talked to they techs at Mesa once and was told the reason for nixing the neo drivers was totally cost driven. The neo drivers (celestion) had price increases and they couldn't keep the retail price competitive so they went to the cheaper but heavier drivers. When I asked how much different the proprietary neo drivers were from the regular Celestion neo's he said very little is actually changed, I asked if it was mostly the label that changed, he laughed a little and said he couldn't answer that. He did say I would prob have no problem swapping those drivers. But swapping a neo 15 in place of an alnico, I suspect will be a different story as they would have to be very different drivers. For $80 I'll get one and play with it. I suspect using the T/S parameters from celestion will be very close to correct.
...when I get time
The neo drivers in the 12" version are made by Eminence. I'm surprised they went with Celestion on the 15".
It was my understanding that the 12" neos were eminence 2512 in 4 and 8 ohms. But, they could have been tweaked. I don't know for sure. That's a good sounding driver in pairs, in a big enough box. When it comes to neo vs ceramic, my personal opinion is that both can sound great. I do find that the neos tend to sound cleaner up top and at loud volumes, that's not my preference. Ceramics in general, tend to sound less clean and more pleasing at high volumes. Again, this is upper mids and treble, at high volumes. I did a direct comparison of an eminence b810 driver with a custom version with a neo magnet. Frequency graphs look the same but, the neo was very clean up top and wasn't as satisfying for me. Just my input.
They didn't. The 15"s are Eminence, as well. I have one of the last 15" extension cabs made (in fact, I was told by my dealer it was "THE last") and it has the 15" Eminence Neo in it.
I know that Mesa went to alnico on the Powerhouse series at one point for cost reasons, but I was also told by Mesa that they couldn't do the same on the Scout cabinets because of tuning and that they were unable to find a satisfactory substitute. I am really surprised that anyone has a Scout cab, 12" or 15", that would come from the factory with an ceramic driver after hearing that statement.
On Mesa's online store they only show neo Scout replacement speakers, and in fact, all the ceramic bass speakers they show are more expensive than the neo options.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
- 40,442
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
It's possible that a cabinet that simply happens to have Neo drivers might be voiced differently than a similar one with ALNICO or ceramic magnets. I'd attribute that to speaker/cab voicing choices, not magnet material.
As an engineer (albeit not a specialist in this area) I have a hard time imagining a magnetic field cares what type of material created it when it's interacting with other components in a speaker. I know it's a bit of stretch, but my toaster doesn't care I f the electricity it's getting comes from a nuclear power plant, a coal fired plant or a portable generator running on 87 octane gas I siphoned from car's gas tank.
That's true for toasters but i think we all agree the best toast is made over a fire, preferebly one that was satrted by rubbing 2 sticks together...
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,970
- 5
- 220,703
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Correct, the magnetic field is the magnetic field no matter how it's generated.
What a neo based motor allows us to do as a designer is locate the magnet (and it's electro-magnetic properties of it's material itself) is a different location and with different materials which can more easily lower the effective inductance of the VC which can increase the potential for more extended, lower distortion higher frequency response. It's not the magentic field that's generated, but what we as designers can do to exploit the higher magnetic density and thus place differently. It's very similar to a flux shorting ring on a conventional ceramic magnet motor, which also improves frequency respons in much the same way. It then becomes a design & voicing preference rather than based purely on the limitations of the motor.
What a neo based motor allows us to do as a designer is locate the magnet (and it's electro-magnetic properties of it's material itself) is a different location and with different materials which can more easily lower the effective inductance of the VC which can increase the potential for more extended, lower distortion higher frequency response. It's not the magentic field that's generated, but what we as designers can do to exploit the higher magnetic density and thus place differently. It's very similar to a flux shorting ring on a conventional ceramic magnet motor, which also improves frequency respons in much the same way. It then becomes a design & voicing preference rather than based purely on the limitations of the motor.
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
- 10,768
- 40,442
- Disclosures
- Mesa Boogie beta product tester and player support
This is so much better in terms of an explanation than my lame toaster analogy...although as lame analogies go, it wasn't all that bad.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,970
- 5
- 220,703
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Maybe, it depends entirely on the desire (and technical chops) of each designer. It's possible to make a Neo driver brighter or darker just like it is with a ceramic driver depending on the goals. It's just easier to extend the response with a Neo, but it's not because of the magnet, but what we can do with it and where we can place it.
