Mesa Subway Bass DI Preamp

[georgiagoodie]

Mine shipped from Sweetwater this weekend. 'Have not had a chance to play thru it yet. Soon, soon...

 

[paytojt]

That's my plan as well. Streamliner 900. Not that that head needs help, just that the mesa preamp will be the heart of my direct/ears rig, with the streamliner doing amp duty for the rare(ish) amp gig.

Yeah. Different tones. Subway fills in the mids better, but love the tube sound from the Streamliner.

 

[aBoMoFo]

Subway DI ordered from Sweetwater this morning. I've had a D800 for a while now and been in love with it ever since it showed up. I'm looking forward to having more options than a JDI provides for the amp-less gigs!

 

[Mr. Majestic]

still saving for the Subway DI.....

 

[fclefgeoff]

still saving for the Subway DI.....

You'll be glad you did. Totally worth it.

 

[Al Kraft]

still saving for the Subway DI.....

I've never regretted saving up or waiting for any of my Mesa gear...you will not be disappointed!

 

[paytojt]

I've never regretted saving up or waiting for any of my Mesa gear...you will not be disappointed!

The hype is real!

 

[Mr. Majestic]

You'll be glad you did. Totally worth it.

I've never regretted saving up or waiting for any of my Mesa gear...you will not be disappointed!

I know! I've never ever been dissatisfied with Mesa. I am super satisfied with my Subway D-800, totally loved my Walkabout and was crazy for selling my Mesa quad preamp setup......... I've truly been wanting an older V1 pedal, but whenever I've got the money, I can't find one for sale.
I've posted pics of my pedalboard, but I truly liked my D-800 so much....I built it to match....even the pedalboard case!

 

[bonin in the boneyard]

Mine arrived from Sweetwater last night. I only had a few minutes to play with it because I had to get back to work thanks to leaving the work early to trick-or-treat with the kids, But I like it! I ran it through a Rolls Personal Monitor into headphones.

I've been using the Ampeg SCR-DI, and while I like the Ampeg tone, it's not my tone, and it's baked into the their DI. Right off the bat I like the Mesa sound better. And it's a damn good thing because I have a D800 on the way, and I've never owned or played any Mesa gear before! Anyway, the SCR-DI is up for sale now

I like that it has separate EQ points for low and high mids, but I mostly left the EQ flat and played with the voicing knob. I found something to like about it in pretty much every position.

My only other impression is that it is rather large, but not heavy. They probably could have squeezed it into a smaller package. But whatever, it fits where I need it to go.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing other people's impressions.

 

[speyer]

I'm looking forward to having my D-800 tone back - at a fraction of the cost of buying the head again! I feel the same way about my TH-500 pedal. Great stuff.

This is why I have a dedicated preamp pedal board now. So many options.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I'm definitely going to check this out.

I've been avoiding the D800 because I'm mostly playing ampless gigs these days, and can't justify the depreciation on yet another amp trade. Plus, my MB Fusion sounds very good, and has ample headroom for my current needs.

But at this price, it would be great to add Mesa tone colours to my palette.

 

[agedhorse]

Let me duscuss a bit about the overdrive versus distortion comments made earlier in this thread.

This is primarily a preamp and DI, and while it will do the mild overdrive tones, more like the classic amps, it was not intended to be a full on distortion device because there are just too many different takes on what style of distortion is appropriate for individual tastes and, of course, music styles. That's why there are so many different distortion pedals out there, and as tastes change these pedals seem to come and go as needed.

What we felt was more important to MOST players is a preamp that is distortion pedal friendly, one that allows the character of each different distortion style to shine through while still maintaining the inherent Mesa tone profile.

Hope this helps.

 

[fclefgeoff]

Let me duscuss a bit about the overdrive versus distortion comments made earlier in this thread.

This is primarily a preamp and DI, and while it will do the mild overdrive tones, more like the classic amps, it was not intended to be a full on distortion device because there are just too many different takes on what style of distortion is appropriate for individual tastes and, of course, music styles. That's why there are so many different distortion pedals out there, and as tastes change these pedals seem to come and go as needed.

What we felt was more important to MOST players is a preamp that is distortion pedal friendly, one that allows the character of each different distortion style to shine through while still maintaining the inherent Mesa tone profile.

Hope this helps.

When can we expect a bass friendly OD or distortion pedal from Mesa? It seems all of your stomp box designs cater to guitarists.

 

[therhodeo]

A mesa bass od in the Flux Five format with the 5 band points shifted a bit would be incredible.

 

[aBoMoFo]

My Subway Bass DI arrived yesterday right before it was time to run out the door for a church rehearsal. I've got two different roles at my church which winds up being about 80% sound operator and 20% bassist so I'll have two different outlooks on things with the pedal.

Gear used was a Stingray 4HH while I was playing on it and a low/mid grade fender P/J while a different bassist was on the stage.

First as a bassist:
Wow, this thing is a little box of beauty and what you can get out of it tone wise is PERFECT. Size wise it will fit horizontally within a mono tick. I'll post a pick when I get a board cut down for the mono to illustrate. All of the goodness of the D800 preamp section is certainly in there and the voicing knob is once again very well implemented. It has that Mesa flavor which I am a big fan of. The connectivity options make great sense and you can tell that there was a lot of thought put forth in this pedals design and intended hole in the market to fill. In a pinch, I feel you could grab the line level output and feed it right into the second input on a powered floor monitor like a QSC K10 or similar and be happy for the rest of the gig. I'm very interested to see how well this pairs with my big board and also do a direct comparison with a 3Leaf Enabler. Overall 10/10, would buy again.

As a sound engineer:
All thoughts above are echoed here. This does present a better feel in the PA for me than what I get out of a radial D2 and JDI. The HPF that the pedal naturally takes care of on it's own is a blessing and does feel and sound better musically than what can typically be accomplished with a Yamaha digital console. The post out sound is lovely but I would have to have a certain amount of trust in a bassist with this pedal. A small sweep of a knob goes a long way and there is a potential for an overzealous knob twister on stage to drop a driver out of the system with this DI if the engineer isn't prepared. The pre out and unaffected sound is good but not quiet the same feel as post for obvious reasons.

The only true dings that I hear and more so see is that the pedal does appear to have an inherent noise floor that will show up on a console's meter. Audibly this is no big deal as there usually are other items in the system making a bigger racket than this. Some engineers might fuss that they see a -50 level present when there should be none though. This could be the Mesa just bringing to light the noise floor of a system in a building or a potential quirk with a run of 9V Duracells. I'll need to test with a dedicated power supply and a one spot to completely isolate variables. Once I get a chance to do so I'll update. Overall 8.5/10 but that is not a fault of Mesa's at all. Active DI's with tone and boost controls are a fickle thing with sound guys, which is a discussion I think we are all tired of and I don't want to muck the thread up with the beat on a sound guy argument.

 

[agedhorse]

My Subway Bass DI arrived yesterday right before it was time to run out the door for a church rehearsal. I've got two different roles at my church which winds up being about 80% sound operator and 20% bassist so I'll have two different outlooks on things with the pedal.

Gear used was a Stingray 4HH while I was playing on it and a low/mid grade fender P/J while a different bassist was on the stage.

First as a bassist:
Wow, this thing is a little box of beauty and what you can get out of it tone wise is PERFECT. Size wise it will fit horizontally within a mono tick. I'll post a pick when I get a board cut down for the mono to illustrate. All of the goodness of the D800 preamp section is certainly in there and the voicing knob is once again very well implemented. It has that Mesa flavor which I am a big fan of. The connectivity options make great sense and you can tell that there was a lot of thought put forth in this pedals design and intended hole in the market to fill. In a pinch, I feel you could grab the line level output and feed it right into the second input on a powered floor monitor like a QSC K10 or similar and be happy for the rest of the gig. I'm very interested to see how well this pairs with my big board and also do a direct comparison with a 3Leaf Enabler. Overall 10/10, would buy again.

As a sound engineer:
All thoughts above are echoed here. This does present a better feel in the PA for me than what I get out of a radial D2 and JDI. The HPF that the pedal naturally takes care of on it's own is a blessing and does feel and sound better musically than what can typically be accomplished with a Yamaha digital console. The post out sound is lovely but I would have to have a certain amount of trust in a bassist with this pedal. A small sweep of a knob goes a long way and there is a potential for an overzealous knob twister on stage to drop a driver out of the system with this DI if the engineer isn't prepared. The pre out and unaffected sound is good but not quiet the same feel as post for obvious reasons.

The only true dings that I hear and more so see is that the pedal does appear to have an inherent noise floor that will show up on a console's meter. Audibly this is no big deal as there usually are other items in the system making a bigger racket than this. Some engineers might fuss that they see a -50 level present when there should be none though. This could be the Mesa just bringing to light the noise floor of a system in a building or a potential quirk with a run of 9V Duracells. I'll need to test with a dedicated power supply and a one spot to completely isolate variables. Once I get a chance to do so I'll update. Overall 8.5/10 but that is not a fault of Mesa's at all. Active DI's with tone and boost controls are a fickle thing with sound guys, which is a discussion I think we are all tired of and I don't want to muck the thread up with the beat on a sound guy argument.

All of this pretty much is in line with what was intended, so it's good that you confirm this.

Regarding the noise on the meter, which console are you using?
Are you seeing this at normal operating levels or do you have the console input gain increased?
Are you seeing this pre or post?
You aren't looking at the signal with the DI set for line level but the console's input set for nominal mic level?
Does the ground lift switch change anything?
Can you hear the noise? What does it sound like?
Is there an analog split being used with another console?
Is phantom on or off for the bass channel?

 

[aBoMoFo]

All of this pretty much is in line with what was intended, so it's good that you confirm this.

Regarding the noise on the meter, which console are you using?
Are you seeing this at normal operating levels or do you have the console input gain increased?
Are you seeing this pre or post?
You aren't looking at the signal with the DI set for line level but the console's input set for nominal mic level?
Does the ground lift switch change anything?
Can you hear the noise? What does it sound like?
Is there an analog split being used with another console?
Is phantom on or off for the bass channel?

And this folks is why agedhorse is THE MAN! If this needs to go to PM please let me know.

Console is a Yamaha M7CL-ES with SB168 i/o boxes connected via ethernet on Cat5e.

Normal and nominal input levels typical with how the console is driven. Side note the Subway DI is a touch hotter than the radials out there in the world.

Seen both pre and post. Output of the DI via Direct Out at mic level (not the line level output) right into a stage box XLR input. Tried this on 2 different stage boxes in different locations with similar results. Ground switch did not alter anything.

There is a very slight noise, more akin to a noise floor hiss. I suspect there might be some sort of weird high frequency oscillation going on too pretty high up there but can't be certain about that. The hiss is at a static level and does not waver in amplitude.

There is no analog split to a record desk or monitor land.

Phantom power is off on the input channels I tested on.

 

[agedhorse]

And this folks is why agedhorse is THE MAN! If this needs to go to PM please let me know.

Console is a Yamaha M7CL-ES with SB168 i/o boxes connected via ethernet on Cat5e.

Normal and nominal input levels typical with how the console is driven. Side note the Subway DI is a touch hotter than the radials out there in the world.

Seen both pre and post. Output of the DI via Direct Out at mic level (not the line level output) right into a stage box XLR input. Tried this on 2 different stage boxes in different locations with similar results. Ground switch did not alter anything.

There is a very slight noise, more akin to a noise floor hiss. I suspect there might be some sort of weird high frequency oscillation going on too pretty high up there but can't be certain about that. The hiss is at a static level and does not waver in amplitude.

There is no analog split to a record desk or monitor land.

Phantom power is off on the input channels I tested on.

Interesting. I'm familiar with the M7, but don't know if the remote head amp gain control uses the same gain control design as the console does.

I would expect the Subway to be about 6dB hotter nominally (in the pre position) than the passive Radials, if you reduce the console gain of the bass channel by the same 6dB and compare to the noise of the Radial you should find the radial noise floor just barely quieter by a few dB, mainly because of the additional active electronics. Try this all with a 1/4" plug into the input and short the input (tip to sleeve) to eliminate all outside noise influences.

Something to try... I assume that you are using the Pre-DI on battery power. If you have a One Spot power supply, can you try it and see if the noise floor changes?

Also, just a hunch, but can you try routing the Pre-DI to an analog input on the console to bypass the multiplexing that's done on the RIO boxes? If the meter reading drops, it may mean that there is some interaction between the input multiplexing circuitry of the RIOs and EtherSound protocol, possibly in conjunction with the 48kHz sampling frequency of the ADC.

Also, on the console, try sampling at 44.1kHz (can't do this on the RIO) and see if it changes.

Because -50dB level should be clearly audible and in fact pretty obvious sounding, and you are not describing something like this, it might be that the meter reading is not accurate (it's not a real meter but is generated by calculations from the DSP) but reading something out of band and calculated rather than real. I remember this being an issue with some sampled sources, but not the specific details.

My test consoles were mostly Yamaha's , PM-1200, PM-3500, M-406 (transformer input) and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

The unweighted S/N ratio of the Pre-DI is -78dB (pre-eq DI out) which is only about 3 or 4dB noisier (in practice) than the Countryman, and I would expect the passive radial too.

 

[BassikLee]

What he said...

 

[bucephylus]

And this folks is why agedhorse is THE MAN!

That actually understates. Andy is not only technically top tier, he is also an amazing cat to work with. True asset to our community.