Mesa Subway D-350!

[Inara]

I'd be very interested. The 300-400 watt range has always been perfect for me. I've played a ton of gigs with the Eden WT300 and WT330, and the Genz Benz NeoPak 3.5 and Shuttle 3.0. I'd love to see a small, lightweight 350 watt Mesa designed by Andy.

 

[Ryan L.]

A lot of people seem to be very happy with the Genzler MG350...if that’s any indication, I’d think a D-350 might do very well.

 

[Heavy Blue]

A lot of people seem to be very happy with the Genzler MG350...if that’s any indication, I’d think a D-350 might do very well.

I like the Genzler but I wish it had the 800’s OD circuit. I like a full feature set on smaller amps. Smaller power shouldn’t have to mean less features.

 

[Ryan L.]

I like the Genzler but I wish it had the 800’s OD circuit. I like a full feature set on smaller amps. Smaller power shouldn’t have to mean less features.

I see your point, definitely. But I think smaller physical size does require compromises on features.

 

[_Some Dude]

I like the Genzler but I wish it had the 800’s OD circuit. I like a full feature set on smaller amps. Smaller power shouldn’t have to mean less features.

The problem is that features cost money and people wouldn’t want to pay full price for an amp with half the power.

 

[BOOG]

Well then
It could be less, I was just spitballin'

Yeah I know but, that’s a solid negative for a me as a price point for any 350w amp. I would think it would be in the range of what Aguilar and Genzler Meggelan (sp?) are ranged and possibly a cent higher for hpf and /or damping features

 

[MaxSpinrun]

That's pretty much a non-option at this point, this is something the company has stood tall on and it's also something that supports our local economy.



There is good and bad manufacturing in all countries, but on the average I would suggest that overall the quality of the average product made in Germany or the US is likely better. I know that when it comes to food products and pharmaceuticals, China doesn't have the most stellar record. Maybe this will change in the next 10 years, but when I audit parts from China, I tend to find more issues than just about any country (other than India).

I studied a good deal of engineering for manufacturing when I was in University, my specialization was industrial/process controls and power systems. Because of this, it saddens me even more to see our manufacturing leaving, but perhaps those who never knew the manufacturing capabilities of the US and Europe don't have the same feelings or memories.

+1

 

[Heavy Blue]

I see your point, definitely. But I think smaller physical size does require compromises on features.

Very true but I don’t think it has to be drastically smaller than the current models. Current class D amps are worlds smaller than the tubed and lead sled amps of old.

Compare between the ELF and my old Peavey MK III. Both 200 watts @4ohms. ELF weighs ounces, the MK III is a tank that weighs probably as much as my other three amps combined and one of those is a lead sled.

Or is the idea to make it micro-sized like an ELF? That would be an interesting idea too. It would be a challenge putting many features on an ELF-sized head.

Case in point. My SWR Headlite is small and sounds good if not massive for what’s supposed to be 400 watts. My 300 watt WA stomps it for sheer output.

However, it’s small front led SWR to put tiny knobs on the front which make it a huge PITA for adjustments. The fact that the knobs are curved and chromey with just a small dot on them compounds the issue. Especially in dark environments. This is my biggest issue with this amp. Tonally, I like it just fine.

I also don’t like it having only one speaker out and they should’ve used a combo Jack there also as I have no cabs with speakons.

It’s a design conundrum alright. I like the simplicity and ease of use of the ELF but in this case with Mesa I’d really like to have the HPF, voicing, and damping controls from the larger amps plus a way to sent the pre out to an external power amp if need be. Personally I don’t care about an effects loop or DI. I only use the WA’s loop for sending the pre out and have never used the DI. It could be completely teats up for all I know.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Yeah I know but, that’s a solid negative for a me as a price point for any 350w amp. I would think it would be in the range of what Aguilar and Genzler Meggelan (sp?) are ranged and possibly a cent higher for hpf and /or damping features

Where is that stuff made? I don't know.

 

[Heavy Blue]

The problem is that features cost money and people wouldn’t want to pay full price for an amp with half the power.

Well of course not but 65% if the big amps price should be reasonable.

To me, the idea here is to make a smaller, less expensive, but well featured amp for newer and/or less well-heeled players (and for those who really don’t need 800 watts at all) that will be a “gateway” product to Mesa’s other products in their line.

May I suggest that maybe they look at this with the idea of maybe having a lower profit margin on this one in order to accommodate this. Sort of like how Harley does/did with the Sportster.

I bought a new Sportster back in ‘89 when Harley would buy back your Sportster for the purchase price when traded in within two years on a new Big Twin and have been riding H-D (and others but always one H-D on hand) ever since. I never actually traded it in either. It was a great bike that I put 88,000 kms on in 3 Atlantic Canadian seasons. That all being said, I like other makes of bikes too. Just like music gear.

 

[agedhorse]

The problem is that features cost money and people wouldn’t want to pay full price for an amp with half the power.

Cost is only part of it. Just as big of a challenge is the space to fit the features. It's a major juggling act.

 

[Heavy Blue]

Where is that stuff made? I don't know.

Good question!

I just went to both companies websites to try to answer your question and neither had any information on them about where their wares are manufactured which would leave me to assume they’re manufactured elsewhere.

Personally, being Canadian, I don’t really care as long as it is a quality product. If I had to follow that rule I’d only be playing through Traynor/Yorkville amps and cabs and then I’d still have to play an imported bass as my budget doesn’t allow for an F-Bass.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I am not saying the D 350 thing is not a good idea. I just think the price point that something like that would come in at, would be too close to or at what Mesa has to offer now. IMHO that market that would be willing to support that at that price point could be very small

this. The only way it could possibly work was if it could be shrunk to increase the 'value' without impacting cost negatively.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Good question!

I just went to both companies websites to try to answer your question and neither had any information on them about where their wares are manufactured which would leave me to assume they’re manufactured elsewhere.

Personally, being Canadian, I don’t really care as long as it is a quality product. If I had to follow that rule I’d only be playing through Traynor/Yorkville amps and cabs and then I’d still have to play an imported bass as my budget doesn’t allow for an F-Bass.

See, that's the thing. Some companies make stuff offshore, nothing wrong with that until, you get a bad one.
Then you have to deal with that situation and if that happens, what becomes of the companies reputation?

Again, think of companies that used to be made in the USA that might still make stuff here but, it's only their high dollar "heritage" lines and the rest or, all of it is made overseas. Think of companies that are headquartered in Germany or Italy or wherever that are designed at headquarters but are made overseas with little or no service support. How good is that?

Remember though, I really don't know what I'm talkin' about. I'm just talkin'

 

[Inara]

Well of course not but 65% if the big amps price should be reasonable.

To me, the idea here is to make a smaller, less expensive, but well featured amp for newer and/or less well-heeled players (and for those who really don’t need 800 watts at all) that will be a “gateway” product to Mesa’s other products in their line.

May I suggest that maybe they look at this with the idea of maybe having a lower profit margin on this one in order to accommodate this. Sort of like how Harley does/did with the Sportster.

I bought a new Sportster back in ‘89 when Harley would buy back your Sportster for the purchase price when traded in within two years on a new Big Twin and have been riding H-D (and others but always one H-D on hand) ever since. I never actually traded it in either. It was a great bike that I put 88,000 kms on in 3 Atlantic Canadian seasons. That all being said, I like other makes of bikes too. Just like music gear.

Totally off topic, but if you're at all interested, we have a thread for bassists who ride, here:
Bassists who ride Motorcycles

Speaking of Sportsters, I have an 88, though I just got it 4 years ago. I don't ride it as much as my other bikes now, but I love it

 

[BOOG]

Where is that stuff made? I don't know.

You know, as a non owner I can’t answer that with certainty. I was assuming USA made but we all know that assumption is the mother of all FU’s

 

[Heavy Blue]

Cost is only part of it. Just as big of a challenge is the space to fit the features. It's a major juggling act.

I bet it is AH!

Then you have guys like me who would like what’s basically an existing amp and just put a smaller power amp in it and scale it down some but then want the resulting product for 65% of the big amps price.

I realize it may not be realistic but someone has to put it out there right?

Speaking just for myself. You could drop the DI and effects loop and replace it with a pre out. Maybe the headphone jack, tuner out, and aux in too but I think others may disagree.

Basically what I would like to see Mesa produce is a smaller unit that a buyer of one of the bigger Rumbles (=>100watts) could consider buying. Get into that market segment. Newer and less well-heeled players. I love Mesa gear but price wise it’s totally out of reach atm.

 

[Heavy Blue]

See, that's the thing. Some companies make stuff offshore, nothing wrong with that until, you get a bad one.
Then you have to deal with that situation and if that happens, what becomes of the companies reputation?

Again, think of companies that used to be made in the USA that might still make stuff here but, it's only their high dollar "heritage" lines and the rest or, all of it is made overseas. Think of companies that are headquartered in Germany or Italy or wherever that are designed at headquarters but are made overseas with little or no service support. How good is that?

Remember though, I really don't know what I'm talkin' about. I'm just talkin'

All good points! I definitely don’t have all the answers that’s for sure and if keeping Mesa all in the US is for the best than that’s great.

I’d just like to see a new Mesa product that I could actually afford. I love/hate surfing Mesa. I just can’t afford any of it given my current circumstances. I’d love a Subway WD-800 and a 2x12 or 2x15.

Regardless, that’s my problem and I’ll love Mesa gear regardless.

Oh yeah, I’m just talking too.

 

[DJ Bebop]

All good points! I definitely don’t have all the answers that’s for sure and if keeping Mesa all in the US is for the best than that’s great.

I’d just like to see a new Mesa product that I could actually afford. I love/hate surfing Mesa. I just can’t afford any of it given my current circumstances. I’d love a Subway WD-800 and a 2x12 or 2x15.

Regardless, that’s my problem and I’ll love Mesa gear regardless.

Oh yeah, I’m just talking too.

I dig!
The only reason I have a WD-800 is Sweetwater.
They had a deal of 36 months interest-free, which brought the price down to about $30 a month
Sometimes those deals won't include some products like Mesa but this time it did!
If it wasn't for that, I'd be sitting here with everybody else whining about not being able to afford Mesa gear

I still don't have any Mesa speakers. Hoping to hit another 36-month deal in the future

Watch Sweetwater or stores of your choice for deals

 

[BOOG]

IMO (and observance) Mesa Eng has become and should remain industry standard for bass specific product with their own niche. As an example, Darkglass has established their own niche. If Mesa wants to continue as a “standard” they must have already established how that “standard” is defined. We on the outside don’t know what the boardroom has decided with how to define that standard/niche. Without that, this discussion is moot.
Things that are certain...
1) US mfg = increased cost
2) more features/greater capabilities = increased cost
3) reliable high quality hardware = increased cost
4) premium warranty/customer service = increased cost
5) compromise the above = decreased cost
I for one don’t care what the cost is as long as Mesa doesn’t compromise their integrity of who “they’ve” determined they are. We all know that if it comes to fruition it will be a premium product. The boardroom will have to decide the cost/benefit ratio.