Mesa Subway D-800+

[_Some Dude]

No one forced anyone to buy an 800, so it the 800+ pisses those owners off, then I suppose they don't have to buy the 800+. But product updates/enhancements and other models happen with any good company. The whole idea is to get better over time.

I saw the same thing happen on the guitar side when Mesa put out the Mark V:35. Some of the V:25 guys got a knot in their face over it because they felt that Mesa had somehow devalued their V:25 by bringing out the "superior" V:35.

Odd thing is, it's probably been a year and I still see people posting pics of their new V:25s with very few new V35s. Just because something is bigger and has more features doesn't mean it's going to sell as well.

 

[Lowendtech]

... except that both offerings were developed at the same time.

I totally get that the plus would've been a better choice for you and some others. But as has been stated, there's more involved than just plunking it out there.
Your posts carry some weight around TB and I've enjoyed (and learned from) many of them. I've been having a "what the heck" moment though.

 

[Lowendtech]

This is one of the more confounding threads I've read on TB. People are upset because Mesa "withheld" an amp from the market? That's nuts. Small companies have to be very careful about both their R&D and their product launches. Timing is everything. Releasing the 800+ at the same time as the 800 would have no doubt cut into 800 sales. Following a year product cycle (which mirrors many major electronics manufacturers) allows them to get good sales on the 800 (due to the quality of the product), and then, perhaps, good sales on the 800+. That's smart business.

No one forced anyone to buy an 800, so it the 800+ pisses those owners off, then I suppose they don't have to buy the 800+. But product updates/enhancements and other models happen with any good company. The whole idea is to get better over time.

I see them as reasonably different products. There are plenty of players who don't want parametric mids - they want a simple setup. If the eq points of the 800 work for them, then they are happy (and seems there have been plenty of those). For players that want more control, now they've got that with the 800 power section and voicing.

It's a win-win, and the only people who have "lost" are those that bought the 800 but really wanted parametric eq. But they even haven't lost - they can buy an 800+ and keep the 800 as a backup or sell it. Such is life with gear...

Well said sir.

 

[Al Kraft]

Well said sir.

+1

 

[Al Kraft]

Who's angry? I'm just disappointed that there was a amp with the feature set I'd like developed at the same time and released a year later.

Understandable and a fair thought to share among friends. I too wish there had been that option when I bought, but I have the option now. Further, it was paced to Mesa's ability to maintain their high standards in production and not overtax their workforce.

We can only imagine if they had released the fully featured model first and held back on the more straight forward one. It was a tough call and they chose to go with what their musician testers recommended because they knew they couldn't do both at the quality level they want to maintain.

I would have been more disappointed if they chose to deliberately overreach and compromised the quality we expect from the Mesa brand.

 

[mmbongo]

Funny thing is, I love my D800 and had no initial interest in the 800+ because I don't need sweepable mids on my amp (have pedals that cover that). But the D800+ has the variable HPF which is something I had no idea I wanted until I started reading about it So I bought a HFP pedal to experiment with to see if I need that!

And the best thing about the Mesa vs. 'the other' amp? No laptop required to operate the Mesa!

 

[agedhorse]

I have all kinds of cool ideas for new products, but over many years of doing this stuff, I know that many will never make it to market for a whole variety of reasons. Sometimes they are too big or too small, too simple or too complicated, too powerful or not powerful enough. In fact, I even have working versions of some of these but they may or may not fit well into the bigger picture. Often, these orphans become stepping stones or lead to a better way to approach the solution. That's how product development works, like it or not (and sometimes it drives me nuts).

 

[Lowendtech]

I have all kinds of cool ideas for new products, but over many years of doing this stuff, I know that many will never make it to market for a whole variety of reasons. Sometimes they are too big or too small, too simple or too complicated, too powerful or not powerful enough. In fact, I even have working versions of some of these but they may or may not fit well into the bigger picture. Often, these orphans become stepping stones or lead to a better way to approach the solution. That's how product development works, like it or not (and sometimes it drives me nuts).

Well if you've got a 100-150w tube amp with the killer DI set up like the SWDI, and an hpf in it up your sleeve, I'd have to drop some coin.

 

[boamedt]

For what its worth i love my simple small d800 and dont really want a +. Sure the hpf is cool but i dont need an effects loop or sweetable mids or a bright switch. I like where the eq points are, they suit my style very well, as does the size. I am a fan of the d800 and would not have bought a + if they were offered at the same time. I came from an mpulse 600 and love the simplicity and tone of the d800. Well done Mesa, well done Andy

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I just don't understand why you are so angry about the introduction of a new model?

Because his other 14 amps all sound like ass, the D-800+ is the ONLY amp that can save the day, he hasn't been listening to your reasons for releasing the the D-800 first and he wants someone besides his impulsive gear junkie self to blame for not waiting?

I dunno I'm just guessing here.....

 

[gustobassman]

For what its worth i love my simple small d800 and dont really want a +. Sure the hpf is cool but i dont need an effects loop or sweetable mids or a bright switch. I like where the eq points are, they suit my style very well, as does the size. I am a fan of the d800 and would not have bought a + if they were offered at the same time. I came from an mpulse 600 and love the simplicity and tone of the d800. Well done Mesa, well done Andy

I was going to say something pretty similar.. Would the extra features be worth $100 more to me? Probably not. I don't tweak the knobs much right now as it is, more would just confuse me, lol. I hear myself fine and sit perfect in the mix for my style with the simple D800.

I wonder "what could have been" with the 800+, but not enough to sell my 800. Until I'm in a gig/studio situation where my Hi Mid freq absolutely must be swept to get me into the "right spot" with the Bright Switch engaged (probably won't happen, haha), the D800 works just fine. I do see the 800+ being useful for people who have needs different than mine. Very cool.

 

[Munjibunga]

Funny thing is, I love my D800 and had no initial interest in the 800+ because I don't need sweepable mids on my amp (have pedals that cover that). But the D800+ has the variable HPF which is something I had no idea I wanted until I started reading about it So I bought a HFP pedal to experiment with to see if I need that!

And the best thing about the Mesa vs. 'the other' amp? No laptop required to operate the Mesa!

Same with the "other" amp.

 

[Munjibunga]

I was going to say something pretty similar.. Would the extra features be worth $100 more to me? Probably not. I don't tweak the knobs much right now as it is, more would just confuse me, lol. I hear myself fine and sit perfect in the mix for my style with the simple D800.

I wonder "what could have been" with the 800+, but not enough to sell my 800. Until I'm in a gig/studio situation where my Hi Mid freq absolutely must be swept to get me into the "right spot" with the Bright Switch engaged (probably won't happen, haha), the D800 works just fine. I do see the 800+ being useful for people who have needs different than mine. Way cool in that respect.

My D800 is on craigslist and my intent is to get an 800+. So I'm not that pissed, eh?

 

[boamedt]

I wouldnt mind a d800+, dont get me wrong. The mpulse 600 knobs were a little confusing. The + knobs seem pretty straightforward. But im glad they came out with 800 first

 

[gustobassman]

My D800 is on craigslist and my intent is to get an 800+. So I'm not that pissed, eh?

It's neat to know what the 800 does and yeah, if the + is more up your alley then go for it. It's great both models are available now to players with different needs. I do see the benefit of releasing one before the other- not to mention all the other new stuff that Mesa put out last year- a second, more complex head would have just confused the direction they were going. IMO only of course..

 

[agedhorse]

My D800 is on craigslist and my intent is to get an 800+. So I'm not that pissed, eh?

I figured not

Really, this is a GREAT opportunity to explore some of the reasons WHY products are what they are, and how they get that way. There's lots of really good gear on the market now, and each one appeals to a certain type of player.

I personally think Jim's new amp is pretty cool actually (of course in my pro audio world, I've been deep into DSP for maybe 15-20 years so it doesn't "scare" me), but it really seems targeted for a player that not only needs the programmable versatility but also wants that kind of interface and is willing to invest in the (relatively shallow IMO) learning curve to get the most out of the amp and can work with the larger size & weight that the additional features bring. Absolutely a case of different strokes for different folks, that's a good thing.

 

[1954bassman]

I have had my D800 less than a year. If both the 800 & 800+ had been available at the time of purchase, I would have still got the 800. I like the simplicity of the 800.

Thing is, if I had to have the 800+, my 800 would go for maybe a $100/$150 loss. So using the Mesa for about one year, and then upgrading to the 800+ would run me in the neighborhood of $200. Really? What's there to complain about here?

 

[Munjibunga]

I figured not

Really, this is a GREAT opportunity to explore some of the reasons WHY products are what they are, and how they get that way. There's lots of really good gear on the market now, and each one appeals to a certain type of player.

I personally think Jim's new amp is pretty cool actually (of course in my pro audio world, I've been deep into DSP for maybe 15-20 years so it doesn't "scare" me), but it really seems targeted for a player that not only needs the programmable versatility but also wants that kind of interface and is willing to invest in the (relatively shallow IMO) learning curve to get the most out of the amp and can work with the larger size & weight that the additional features bring. Absolutely a case of different strokes for different folks, that's a good thing.

I'm kind of a gearhead control nut. I thought I'd like the old M2000 (remember that?) because of all the knobs, switches and faders, but that was a little too much. I've said many times before that it's a great time to be a bass player because of all the flavors of excellent gear that's out there. I can see the attraction to simpler amps, especially if its native sound suits one's taste - no need for deep gizmos to fiddle with. I'm looking forward to the 800+ ... I think. I'll play it first, of course.

 

[Munjibunga]

I have had my D800 less than a year. If both the 800 & 800+ had been available at the time of purchase, I would have still got the 800. I like the simplicity of the 800.

Thing is, if I had to have the 800+, my 800 would go for maybe a $100/$150 loss. So using the Mesa for about one year, and then upgrading to the 800+ would run me in the neighborhood of $200. Really? What's there to complain about here?

$200.

 

[BassikLee]

I'll be getting one of these as well. Right now, about 85% of my gigs are ampless. That, and for the amped gigs, I have an MBFusion as well as a streamliner 900. Do I really NEED this head?? Nope. I don't really NEED the fifth Peavey GV either. I mean, four should really suffice. That said, I want it. Both the 800+ and the bass.