Metal bass EQ frequency settings

[poochiecheeks]

Hello,
I'm entering the world of live and recorded metal bass and I need help on how to EQ it.

I've looked for threads that give some advice on specific frequencies such as this one
Metal Bassists - How to get your Dream Sound (and do it for less than ,000.00)
but nothing focused specifically on what frequencies are good or bad for hearing the bass in a live band. I've seen "don't scoop the mids for the love of god" countless times and read about rolling off frequencies that interfere with the drums such as <~80Hz or >~2.5kHz, and I understand this is kind of a subjective thing but I'd love to hear what you guys think.

For background I am trying to become Alex Webster in a metaphysical sense and I've attatched a pic of what I'm working with, that's on top of a fender 8x10 and an Ibanez Sdgr SR 405 going into it that I'm going to put EMGs in soon once I have the money... the LMB-3 is gonna be replaced by the boss Bc-1X as I'm a boss fanboy and want more of a compressor than a limiter. I'm currently developing a fairly decent 3 finger "hitting the fretboard slap sound" technique and it's tuned Bb standard with DR high beams (obviously)

I was thinking of getting one of those 15 or 20 band eq pedals and throwing that in before the DI so i can adjust every frequency, or mixing the GEB-7 with a GE-7 to get the few extra frequencies that it has and going from there but writing it out makes it sound kind of silly... I really just want a tone youd get in a studio coming out of the balanced output going to the board. Jeez I really have no idea how this works

I used to have the GEB-7 set up looking almost like a cosine wave but I can easily see that getting eaten by the guitars and bass drum. From what I've seen the 120hz slider makes it obnoxiously boomy, and the 400hz slider sounds really whiny, but thats really where your Lows, Low Mids, and High Mids are right?

When I set it up as seen in the pic it just sounds really dull and muffled, and I understand that a good tone in your living room is not a good tone on a stage, but what do I do here? I want to practice with the sound that I'll hear on stage, but what's the point if I can't hear it period?

If this has already been covered specifically in another thread please let me know and I'll delete it to avoid a +1 to the unending list of threads titled "how do i get a nolly metal djent bass tone from my line 6 50w guitar amp and my $80 P bass with 3 yr old strings plz respond"

Thank you and all the best

Nick

 

[Riff Ranger]

Surprised what you’re doing there isn’t working.

 

[poochiecheeks]

Surprised what you’re doing there isn’t working.

I mean I guess it is, I'm just not sure if it'll end up sounding good and fitting in a mix properly or not. I'm surprised more at how crap it sounds on it's own really, but everything I've read says that it sounds bad solo'd until you play it in a live setting and can hear it, and then there's no going back lol.
Guess that's the right idea then?
Thanks

 

[Mushroo]

Try turning down the Gain and turning up the Master on your Quilter BB800. (In my opinion/experience) even if you are just practicing quietly, you want to get the Master up to at least 40w for that amp to "come to life." At the settings in your photo, the Quilter is probably heavily compressing your signal, which makes it sound like it has a pillow over it. Turn up the Master for more "headroom"!

 

[poochiecheeks]

Try turning down the Gain and turning up the Master on your Quilter BB800. (In my opinion/experience) even if you are just practicing quietly, you want to get the Master up to at least 40w for that amp to "come to life." At the settings in your photo, the Quilter is probably heavily compressing your signal, which makes it sound like it has a pillow over it. Turn up the Master for more "headroom"!

Thank you I didn't even think of that! I'll usually run it into the DI in on the back to bypass the preamp but I'm waiting on a balanced TRS M to XLR M cable to come in the mail. I only recently got this to replace a small markbass combo that i really didn't like so still getting used to it.

 

[monsterthompson]

When I set it up as seen in the pic it just sounds really dull and muffled,

I found the Quilter dulled the edge off any/every distortion pedal I used it with, from Darkglass to Dunwich. Not necessarily muffled, but definitely dull. I assumed the compression/limiting characteristics of the amp were working against me, though the clean tones I got were more enjoyable. Do you have another bass amp you can try? I know people have made the Quilter work in a variety of settings, but based on my experience I’d at least test the same rig with another head to see/hear what you get.

As for frequencies of interest. The DSM OCSD has been a good tool. The mid cut is at 450 Hz and the Punch is a boost around 800.

The Darkglass Tone Capsule uses 70 Hz, 500 Hz, and 2.8 kHz. That mid frequency is close to the cut on the OCSD. I believe Alex is now running the Tone Capsule on his basses.

I believe the B3K EQ plots are available online (from a reddit discussion), and they show a pretty big EQ scoop in the 350 Hz range.

 

[poochiecheeks]

Thank you! The Quilter is the only head I have and I bought it specifically for this cabinet... I guess I have to spend another two months now trying to find a different head to go with this... at this point I'm ready to buy an 800w 4ohm power amp and just be done with it because it took forever to find something that would work with this cab and I'm sick of buying bass amps that end up being horrible for what I want them to do

I was wondering where the tone capsule put its EQ points, that's really useful. I never liked 400hz on bass distortion anyway so it makes sense that the B3K does that, and I've actually considered swapping out to that pedal instead of the alpha omicron. I'm likely going to put one on this bass but with the pickups that's like $4-500 that I can't find anywhere lol

As for the DSM I've never heard of that before but it looks amazing, I'll have to look into it.

I've always wondered, is there an easy way to analyze the frequency spectrum of a given input signal using audacity or something similar (i.e. not protools)? I'd really love to be able to see what all my pedals do and what their EQ curves look like to get a better understanding of all this

Thanks again

 

[monsterthompson]

I've always wondered, is there an easy way to analyze the frequency spectrum of a given input signal using audacity or something similar (i.e. not protools)? I'd really love to be able to see what all my pedals do and what their EQ curves look like to get a better understanding of all this

This was just mentioned in a thread and I’m drawing a blank on it. I think it was suggested that you could just use a standard 8 band EQ plugin from GarageBand, but others were free worked well with audacity (it might’ve been in the discussion about the new Empress compressor, either in that thread or in the generally big compressor thread).

 

[poochiecheeks]

This was just mentioned in a thread and I’m drawing a blank on it. I think it was suggested that you could just use a standard 8 band EQ plugin from GarageBand, but others were free worked well with audacity (it might’ve been in the discussion about the new Empress compressor, either in that thread or in the generally big compressor thread).

Thanks man I appreciate it

 

[Riff Ranger]

I'm surprised more at how crap it sounds on it's own really

This surprises me less

I’m wading into this myself right now. Even controlling the settings for both the guitar and the bass, as I’m playing both for my project, I find what sounds one way on its own can sound quite different with everything thrown together, even trying to take all the advice out there into account from the get-go.

 

[poochiecheeks]

I find what sounds one way on its own can sound quite different with everything thrown together

Sounds about right lol
I'm gonna try and find isolated guitar tracks for some random songs and play them along with the bass, trying different settings to see what fits the best. Or conversely, listening to the isolated bass tracks for some of your favorite songs will prove your point there quite well

 

[callofcthulhu]

Fitting in with a mix is as much (if not moreso) about the mix as it is about what you're bringing to it.

Without hearing the mix you're trying to fit into all anyone here can give you is rules of thumb in the abstract. They might get you by in a live situation, but even then, if you just apply them blindly without using your ears, you're gonna have a bad time.

For example, one rule of thumb "don't scoop your mids" is only going to be useful if you're going against traditionally scooped guitars (e.g. Metallica). If you're playing most modern types of post-stoner metal (and not djent) you'll likely want a healthy scoop to get out of the way of those mid forward guitars.

When mixing, any engineer dealing with a dense metal mix is going to have a spectrometer pulled up so they can find the exact frequency where they can safely complimentarily cut one instrument and boost the other, even if it's something goofy like 327.65 Hz in the guitars or 33.3333 Hz on the kick.

 

[poochiecheeks]

Yknow that makes a lot of sense, I think I'm just overcomplicating things with this. I guess I should be listening to the guitars and drums in whatever mix in question, and just kind of fill in all the holes like maple syrup on waffles. That's what the bass is all about right?
Thanks

 

[monsterthompson]

Possibly. You could try setting the knobs/sliders all at/near noon and then listen for what’s too much and what’s not enough, then turning/sliding them one at a time to see what helps or hurts. It would require some patience from the band.

I’m not suggesting noon because it is “flat” but because it will give you the most room to equally adjust up or down as needed.

Alternatively, you could start with the tone you think you want, and then modify from there. One knob at a time. Listen for what helps/hurts.

 

[knumbskull]

Honestly that’s some pretty hard EQing on the GEB-7!

What i’m about to say might all be obvious, but here we go anyway...

If i’m learning one thing about metal bass sounds after 20 years or so of gigging / recording, it’s that less is sometimes more. I’ve gone from using multiple preamps, overdrives in a blended parallel setup to currently using just a compressor and a single preamp with just a touch of drive. Not saying i won’t go back, but still...

my advice: start with just bass and the amp and see if you can clear up your “too muffled” issue. I’m not familiar with the Quilter but if you can’t clear the mud at source, i’m not sure throwing more gear at it will help.

Next, bring your preamps / drives in one at a time but starting with their EQ flat and the distortion on very low. This always helps me “reset” my sounds if things aren’t working.

finally, bring in your EQ pedal, again set flat, and *gently* tweak each frequency band.

You could also try putting your preamps in a different order. Can be a big difference.

(i also remember reading that the LMB3 has a slight high frequency rolloff at higher comp settings. Not sure if this may be contributing?)

as someone said, there’s no point trying to EQ for a mix that doesn’t exist yet, so just try to get a tone you like and you can adjust from there when you record.

on a side note, i MUCH prefer the frequency bands on the older boss EQ pedal, the GE-7B. 60/120/250/1k/2k/4k or near enough. Great for metal and anything else.

 

[Hypocrite]

With what you've got, I would Max the drive on the A/Om, bring level up to about 3 o'clock and back the blend off to about 9 o'clock. Make sure you get a strong, clanky signal from your onboard preamp that you mix in to the distortion. For playing live, I wouldn't recommend a power amp, as once you've fed the soundguy a DI signal (which mod than likely he'll take from his own DI, not the back of your amp) you'll probably want to adjust the sound you get on stage differently to what the soundguy needs.
For a dense metal mix I found the A/Om lacklustre, I much prefer the B3K or X7. And as always, new strings make all the difference!

 

[31HZ]

I saw this in the Eddie Jackson thread yesterday and found the EQ method to be an eye-opener. Maybe it'll be helpful to you as well.

 

[31HZ]

I saw this briefly alluded to earlier in the thread, but what your recorded EQ winds up being will have to do with where you (and the engineer) decide to notch (or find where they are naturally "notched") other instruments in order to make room for the bass on the frequency spectrum. This is a major reason why solo'd bass tracks usually sound not-so-great (and, conversely, why great "bedroom" tone doesn't work at a gig or on a recording).

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hello,
I'm entering the world of live and recorded metal bass and I need help on how to EQ it.

I've looked for threads that give some advice on specific frequencies such as this one
Metal Bassists - How to get your Dream Sound (and do it for less than ,000.00)
but nothing focused specifically on what frequencies are good or bad for hearing the bass in a live band. I've seen "don't scoop the mids for the love of god" countless times and read about rolling off frequencies that interfere with the drums such as <~80Hz or >~2.5kHz, and I understand this is kind of a subjective thing but I'd love to hear what you guys think.

For background I am trying to become Alex Webster in a metaphysical sense and I've attatched a pic of what I'm working with, that's on top of a fender 8x10 and an Ibanez Sdgr SR 405 going into it that I'm going to put EMGs in soon once I have the money... the LMB-3 is gonna be replaced by the boss Bc-1X as I'm a boss fanboy and want more of a compressor than a limiter. I'm currently developing a fairly decent 3 finger "hitting the fretboard slap sound" technique and it's tuned Bb standard with DR high beams (obviously)

I was thinking of getting one of those 15 or 20 band eq pedals and throwing that in before the DI so i can adjust every frequency, or mixing the GEB-7 with a GE-7 to get the few extra frequencies that it has and going from there but writing it out makes it sound kind of silly... I really just want a tone youd get in a studio coming out of the balanced output going to the board. Jeez I really have no idea how this works

I used to have the GEB-7 set up looking almost like a cosine wave but I can easily see that getting eaten by the guitars and bass drum. From what I've seen the 120hz slider makes it obnoxiously boomy, and the 400hz slider sounds really whiny, but thats really where your Lows, Low Mids, and High Mids are right?

When I set it up as seen in the pic it just sounds really dull and muffled, and I understand that a good tone in your living room is not a good tone on a stage, but what do I do here? I want to practice with the sound that I'll hear on stage, but what's the point if I can't hear it period?

If this has already been covered specifically in another thread please let me know and I'll delete it to avoid a +1 to the unending list of threads titled "how do i get a nolly metal djent bass tone from my line 6 50w guitar amp and my $80 P bass with 3 yr old strings plz respond"

Thank you and all the best

Nick

Record your bass straight into the di. No pedals. Record two identical tracks at the same time (or 3). Set up one track with guitar plugins (amp, noise gate, distortion, etc). Set up another with bass plugins (amp, compressor, etc). Leave another untouched. Do not use cab sims. Your lows will be loose, and you'll lose most of your highs.

 

[dax21]

Disengage both the boss limiter and the boss driver. Darkglass should be able to get you there alone, with those EMGs when you get them. If you are going for the Webster percusive style you would probably want to also adjust your Boss EQ. Boost the lows instead of cutting them because strings barely get to oscillte when you play with that percussive style instead of stroking the string. Also that high boost on the EQ is also unnecessary, again - Darkglass should be able to get you that clank.
I find that compressors/limiters before the dirt pedal often tend to really neuter it completely and aren't all that necessary. Less is more in this case.