Micro Bass Heads, why doesn't everyone use them?

[grendle]

The only practical "functional" difference between a class D binary switching amp (with switches either fully on or fully off), and a computer microprocessor (either gates fully open or fully closed), is that the class D amp is thousands (millions?) of times bigger. This is a function of practical scalar comparison.

Both share either "fully on" or "fully off" switches in class D amps, and gates in microprocessor.

Binary states, ON/OFF. 1/0's......are digital. Period.

Because of its digital-like function of switches, I imagine that class D amps often neglect the continuous analog signal of musically pleasing waveforms and amplitudes (the vibration of a bass string is a classic analog waveform).

Although this greatly improves efficiency in power, it potentially sacrifices continuity of tone.

This would maybe explain the tapering compression I heard when I played my fretless through the RH 750, as well as the altered string scrub sounds.

The amp switches act almost like a gate in a compressor (QUESTION: What determines the threshold of these class D switches?)

Hence, a digital-like compression.

I believe class D amps behave very digitally.

Defining class D amps is another can of worms all together!

FWIW: I loved the RH750 for thumping and aggressive rock!!

Not-so-much for expressive finesse.

PEACE

That is basically correct in general theory. There's more to it in the design, but what your looking at is pulse width modulation on a carrier with a class D amp by design. The reason they don't sound like the class AB stuff is because your basically listening to a signal comprised of samples. The sample or mod rate is high enough so you can hear the representation of the signal clearly, but its still not the "complete" signal comming out. There are minute spaces in there that you ear picks up which is why they sound different.

What's interesting is as the sample rate gets better ( Telecom technology is WAY advanced but similiar and will trickle down ) these amps will only get better. Give it a few years.

 

[Dubista]

I don't use one because I can't afford one.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

You are comparing a 250 watt amp with a 'lead sled' This is where these 'myths' of a certain class of amp or a certain power supply sounding 'better' than another class of amp.

You are correct that up until relatively recently, there were no SMPS driven amps in the bass guitar amplification category that really matched watt for watt with an amp like the DB750. Now there are.

Perhaps apples and oranges with the Carvin example. Here's a better example: My QSC PLX1600 doesn't have quite the thick low-end that my QSC RMX850 does.

 

[Korladis]

I don't use one because so far none really meet my tonal goals. Also, probably not as easy for techs to work on as my amp.

 

[Anthbass]

I haven't owned a 'micro' head, simply because I'm not really a gear hound. I look at the stuff, and try it out in stores periodically, but haven't come home with any of it (yet). I'm not gigging these days, and I suppose have forgotten the 3am-multiple-trips-up-icy-stairs-with-a-40-pound-head, so there's that. I'm curious about the Streamliner, and also about Roger's new amp, the Valkyrie. I'll use whatever sounds best to me, and put up with it being ludicrously heavy or small enough to lose in a purse. Beyond what it does for me, the rest doesn't matter, IMO.

 

[atrapp]

I normally only use combos, but I have used an Ashdown little giant 1000 and mibass 550 and I love them, they can pack a lot of punch and they are small and light, so don't more bassist use them? And why don't more companies buy into the idea? What are your oughts tb?

I've bought several micro amps and the only one I have kept to date is the Orange Terror Bass - which for a micro amp is quite heavy at around 12lbs. I bought and returned two Mark Bass and one GK micro heads, for no other reason than not liking the sound. To be honest I only use the Terror Bass for Worship duties (very low volume), my Thunderfunks (550 and 750) handle rock gigs and not because the TB isn't loud enough, but I really like how the Tfunks sound at club volumes. I will buy one of the GenzBenz Shuttle 6.2 when they are available, seems like a great little head.
Buy what makes you happy

 

[NoFretsNoWorry]

I think I finally figured out my overall perspective on this and my apprehensions (other than what I previously posted here). I apologize for not realizing this earlier!

The argument in favor of class D amps reminds me of the argument in the 1970's "solid state" uprising (LOL!) that killed/neglected tube production.

Specifically, the argument for transistors was something to the effect that transistors are "smaller, lighter, less expensive to produce, and last longer than tubes". Tube manufacturing (american) stopped for "progress" in favor of transistors. *sigh* big music industry low point!

The 1980's was the "wake up call back to tubes" and the analog warmth they infuse into music. Not only in bass, but the entire recording industry.

I would hate to see history repeat itself because something is "better, lighter, less expensive, and lasts longer", and that possibly certain audio qualities could be once again overlooked for the sake of "affordable progress". Instead of tubes being underestimated this time, perhaps it could be "amp class"?? I'm just sayin! (activating flame-retardent undergarments )

I am just sharing an opinion.....doesn't make it right....doesn't make it wrong!

Add the digital advent of the 1980's and the boundaries blur even further between tube and solid state and digital and analog.

Keeping the variety of amp classes sure keeps it more interesting IMO! I believe there is plenty of room for many amp class options!

I am excited to see the evolution of class D, but for now I am hearing some digital non-musical qualities similar to pure solid state (without tube emulation or golden ear circuitry).......only more "digital-like".

I still plan to keep trying different models and manufacturers of micros over time!

I just haven't found the one for me yet! But I am looking.

We can agree, or respectfully agree to disagree! I'm cool with either!

PEACE

 

[Plaz]

I like my rack. I like my dbx compressor and my SansAmp RBI, and my I don't like having to mess with pedals. I like a lot of EQ options. I like having everything self-contained... at the end of the night, I shove the power cable and the speaker cable back into the rack, slap on the end covers, and I'm outta there.

And, ok, lastly, I'm not too proud to admit I like the aesthetic of a bunch of pretty lights and knobs.

 

[vin*tone]

My amp of choice ATM is an Eden WT550. I prefer it because it sounds great & has a killer EQ. I think the only other micro with shiftable mids is the MB F500(??).. and the weight difference is not an issue for me. If you're carrying a 70lb speaker bin the a few lbs worth of amp are irrelevant.

 

[atrapp]

My amp of choice ATM is an Eden WT550. I prefer it because it sounds great & has a killer EQ. I think the only other micro with shiftable mids is the MB F500(??).. and the weight difference is not an issue for me. If you're carrying a 70lb speaker bin the a few lbs worth of amp are irrelevant.

+1

I leave a cabinet at Church, making the lil Orange an easy schlep.

 

[pickles]

i understand what you mean by preamp voiceing, but in my case i A/B/C/D tested the power stages of different amps using the same preamp. the output power ratings were from 500- 1200w. they all sounded great with subtle differences in nuiance, but the clear winner was a Class H power supplied amp!

my son was the least knowledge-able person in the room, but the first one to yell, Holy Cow! i hear guys saying all power sections sound they same, but the don't, IMHO!!!
perhap the component specs and build quality won out in our contest,.. maybe it was input sensitivity, impedence matching, etc. i don't know. everything sounded more musical to everyone in the room.

not to be specific, but the test products in the room were from Fender, Mesa Boogie, Mark Bass, Demeter, Stewart Audio and Peavey with the bass, preamp, and cab being the only constant. YMMV

The results of tests like this can be heavily skewed unless the gains of the amps are carefully matched. It's easy to do, you just need a dummy load and a volt meter.

I didn't believe it until I tried it.

 

[randysmojo]

My amp of choice ATM is an Eden WT550. I prefer it because it sounds great & has a killer EQ. I think the only other micro with shiftable mids is the MB F500(??).. and the weight difference is not an issue for me. If you're carrying a 70lb speaker bin the a few lbs worth of amp are irrelevant.

Just picked up a ShuttleMax 12.0. Not only do the miss "shift" it's got both semi-parametric high and low mids. The regular Shuttle has a sweepable mid also, just not two ranges like it's big bro.

 

[KJung]

I think I finally figured out my overall perspective on this and my apprehensions (other than what I previously posted here). I apologize for not realizing this earlier!

The argument in favor of class D amps reminds me of the argument in the 1970's "solid state" uprising (LOL!) that killed/neglected tube production.

Specifically, the argument for transistors was something to the effect that transistors are "smaller, lighter, less expensive to produce, and last longer than tubes". Tube manufacturing (american) stopped for "progress" in favor of transistors. *sigh* big music industry low point!

The 1980's was the "wake up call back to tubes" and the analog warmth they infuse into music. Not only in bass, but the entire recording industry.

I would hate to see history repeat itself because something is "better, lighter, less expensive, and lasts longer", and that possibly certain audio qualities could be once again overlooked for the sake of "affordable progress". Instead of tubes being underestimated this time, perhaps it could be "amp class"?? I'm just sayin! (activating flame-retardent undergarments )

I am just sharing an opinion.....doesn't make it right....doesn't make it wrong!

Add the digital advent of the 1980's and the boundaries blur even further between tube and solid state and digital and analog.

Keeping the variety of amp classes sure keeps it more interesting IMO! I believe there is plenty of room for many amp class options!

I am excited to see the evolution of class D, but for now I am hearing some digital non-musical qualities similar to pure solid state (without tube emulation or golden ear circuitry).......only more "digital-like".

I still plan to keep trying different models and manufacturers of micros over time!

I just haven't found the one for me yet! But I am looking.

We can agree, or respectfully agree to disagree! I'm cool with either!

PEACE

Many, many, many players in the 70's and 80's GREATLY preferred the new solid state amps versus the tube amps they were stuck with previously. It is all about tone goal, and for me and players like me, the ability to keep a clean, articulate tone at any volume level was a dream come true.

Again, totally, completely agree that those who like an all tube signal chain will always prefer, well, an all tube signal chain, and power tubes and a transformer does provide a different experience to the player (especially those who enjoy the tone of distortion/pushed power tubes).

Saying that those who choose to use solid state amps is in any way a compromise makes little sense to me. And, again, the current SMPS amps seem to be, in every way, equal to any other solid state amp design.

Please don't assume that the thousands and thousands of players, from Marcus Miller and a ton of other high level players, and also the DB guys who want the cleanest, most transparent tone they can get, are somehow 'compromising' when moving from a Ampeg V4b or whatever to a Walter Woods, or a Markbass F500 or an Acoustic Image Clarus, or for that matter, to a Thunderfunk 750a or Aguilar AG500.

All great stuff IMO. I obviously enjoy the topic, and respect your opinion. Good conversation IMO!

 

[Korladis]

Agreed.

I don't think micro bass heads are bad sounding. They're just not made to really do what I'm going for.

 

[Faderoktopus]

To the original poster: It's hard to know why everyone doesn't use a micro head. I've used a lead sled, big amps, and now have two micros: A Genz Benz Streamliner 900 and an EA Micro. Both are wonderful amps. So easy to carry, such fine tone. As the two resolves to the five, which resolves to the one, surely everyone will eventually one day arrive in the same place.

It's not hard to know, as many examples of valid reasons in this thread have shown. I will not say that going micro is necessarily a compromise in sound, but if you don't manage to find the particular amp sound you are looking for among the micro amps available, then it would be a compromise. I really liked the Markbass LMII, and would love that kind of portability, but I liked another amp better and prioritized sound.

Tube lovers don't have to love all tube amps, micro lovers probably don't love all micro amps. The choices are not just between types of amps, or types of power supplies, it is between many many particular models of all types, and one could easily prefer one amp over the other without making a principal stand with regards to any weight class. Thus, some choose a non-micro amp because they prefer it and don't want to compromise for weight. Some prefer a micro amp and are thus fortunate enough to get all that extra portability as a bonus feature. Others again buy a micro as a good compromise, and some keep a large amp around that they also like and use it for some jobs.

So it really isn't that hard to know, and adding in the many who are simply happy with their amps and not searching for replacements, or don't have the cash to go amp shopping, well, there is the answer to the OP.

I guess there is also something to be said for how easily a small, expensive piece of high tech gear could be stolen or lost, or for how many techs probably wouldn't feel comfortable servicing them. Not my main concerns, but definitely worth mentioning.

Martin

 

[s_mcsleazy]

sheep go bahhhhhh, cows go moooo, sean smells a troll

 

[KJung]

sheep go bahhhhhh, cows go moooo, sean smells a troll

The thread title is a bit extreme, but the discussion has IMO been pretty good.

 

[Bassliner]

haha one of those comments "being 17 years old" reminded me of a joke..

'If the music's too loud you're just too old'...can translate that to 'if the gear's too heavy, you're too old' aswell?

I know I didn't used to care.. didn't think I got lighter stuff because I'm nearing my 30's though

Personally, I love my Markbass stuff. 1 walk from or to the car takes 'all' my stuff. Ofcourse, that gave me a good reason to bring more basses, and even a pedalboard to some gigs. So, I still take at least 2 walks now haha.
Anyway, I like the sound. If I wouldn't, I wouldn't be using it. Simple as that really

 

[s_mcsleazy]

The thread title is a bit extreme, but the discussion has IMO been pretty good.

well yeah. i'll even conceed that reading about digital is kinda intresting. however i just think the OP is kinda missing the point a bit. part of being a bass player or a musician in general is that soo much can make a diffrence to your sound no matter how small however the big things are your bass and your amp. we make the desiscion on the gear we use and live with it for a while.

ill admit my bassman is too bloody heavy but theres one bloody good reason why its my main amp.

 

[aborgman]

My 75% estimate is current sales, not total usage.

I'd bet you're way off on that.

I'd bet more like about 25% of new amp sales are micros.