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Mini Cab Combo Shootout

#43
thejohnkim said:
hehe i think i got it through logic.....

A - Epi
B - Cxl
C - Berg
D - Wizzy
E = VL
Click to expand...

I proclaim you.... "Master of Logic!" :hyper:

That is, indeed, the correct order! Now, since everyone seems to think that whoever guesses it right is supposed to "win" something, I offer you a special prize! A hard to find copy of Gingley JoH's epic release, "Banter!" PM me your address, and this full-length CD of diversiform rock is on its way to you, thelogicking!
 
#44
Thanks for the great reviews!!!
For those of us who are too challenged to scroll like mad i did some cutting and pasting. :D :p

Epifani T-112/T-110UL: This combo had the deepest response overall, with a hint of mid scoop, but you probably wouldn't notice it if it wasn't being compared to other, midrange friendly smaller cabs. I'd call it "polite" in the mids, more than "mid-shy." Definitely the biggest low end, though, and very nice high end. Somewhat of an "old school vibe", but not so much as Combo C. Really likes being driven hard. With the "Deep" switch on the iAMP 800 engaged, though, it became too low end heavy.

EA CXL-112/CXL-210: This was both the tightest sounding and the thinest sounding of the group. Clarity was razor sharp. With the "Deep" switch engaged on the iAMP 800, though, these two cabs really come to life and handle the extra lows without any problems. Set flat, though, it was by far the smallest sounding combo of the group. With the "Deep" switch engaged, and with the volume cranked, though, it became a monstrously full and loud rig. Ultimately, a very flexible combo, but needs EQing.

Bergantino EX112/HT112: This combo hit the "old school vibe" right off the bat. The lows weren't earth shaking, but output was respectable for the size of the cab ("Deep" worked to provide excellent fundamental support at lower volumes, but I wasn't comfortable using it with higher volumes). Articulation throughout the midrange was punchy, if not ultimately as clear as some of the others. Low mids up through middle mids are its strength. Also a little bit polite in the upper mids, but not so much as Combo A. Very punchy overall, especially in the heart of the midrange. Slightly "roundish" sound, overall.

EA Wizzy x 2: At similar volume settings, this was the loudest combo of the group. Articulation was very good from top to bottom. Overall clarity was a shade behind Combos B and E, but in the same ballpark. Low end was surprisingly strong, and just barely behind Combo A. With "Deep" engaged, it became huge, but still manageable, and could be used even at higher volumes. Also very punchy, but more of a high-mid punch, when compared to Combo C. A very balanced combo, but with an extra layer of upper midrange presence, and a hint of warmth.

EA VL-110/VL-208: This combo had it all - strong lows, balanced mids, smooth sweet highs, and ability to be driven very hard without breaking up. You could probably dial in the sound of almost any of the other combos with these two cabs. The "Deep" switch was pretty much unnecessary, but if used, it worked much like with Combo C, and again, I wouldn't use it if pushing the volume really loud. The only complaint of this combo compared to the others might be that since it seems to hit on all cylinders across the board, it doesn't have as much "personality" as the others.
 
#45
tombowlus said:
I proclaim you.... "Master of Logic!" :hyper:

That is, indeed, the correct order! Now, since everyone seems to think that whoever guesses it right is supposed to "win" something, I offer you a special prize! A hard to find copy of Gingley JoH's epic release, "Banter!" PM me your address, and this full-length CD of diversiform rock is on its way to you, thelogicking!
Click to expand...
Wow! I would not have expected the CXL's to be the thinnest sounding of the bunch -- big surprise!

That's why I had the VL's and CXL's swapped & got the rest of them right. :hmm:
 
#46
lo-freq said:
Wow! I would not have expected the CXL's to be the thinnest sounding of the bunch -- big surprise!

That's why I had the VL's and CXL's swapped & got the rest of them right. :hmm:
Click to expand...
I am not surprised. I thought it was just me. As much as I like my CXL112, they longer I have it the more I wished I had got the Wizzy. I have been wanting a fatter tone.
 
#48
tombowlus said:
I can't fully explain just why I love the T-Bird so. It is just "my sound." But, strangely enough, I don't go for the same amps/cabs that many T-Bird players seem to use...
Click to expand...

I admire your decision to follow your own ears and use what you like rather than what is considered "standard." Good show, Tom. Nice shootout, too. :cool:
 
#49
Some obvservations...

It seems like a lot of you got the Epi's right from the get go. While some of the same verbage could have applied to the Bergies (like "polite in the mids" and "somewhat of an old school vibe"), the Bergies, you will note, were the kings of "old school", and while their presentation is somewhat "polite" overall, they have more going on throughout the mids than the Epis. Other cabs (like the CxL's and the VL's) like to be driven hard, too, but don't have as big of a low end, and don't get too boomy with the "Deep" engaged.

A lot of folks had trouble placing the CxL's. I was quite surprised at how thin they sounded compared to everything else. Yes, you can move mountains with these cabs, but you need to give them a bit of EQ (the 112 moreso than the 210). The "Deep" circuit seems to have been designed with these cabs in mind, as I found their tone to be near optimal with no EQ other than the "Deep" contour.

The Wizzy's were a common choice for Combo C, and this didn't surprise me. The two Wizzy's did have some similarities to the Bergies, and based upon earlier listening tests and prior descriptions, I had anticipated this being the case. The main difference was the upper mid focus and greater clarity of the Wizzy's, compared to the low-mid, to mid-mid punch of the Bergies, which were much more polite compared to the Wizzy's. I was a bit surprised at how "polite", really. Much more old school than I expected, and very punchy, though not as bright as I thought.

The Wizzy's really impressed me. Even without any tweeters, they have plenty of high end, and it's really nice and smooth. What surprised me the most was the amount of low end I could get out of two Wizzy's, and how well they handled the "Deep" circuit. At a 2 ohm load, each was seeing 500w from my iAMP 800, and they showed no signs of stress, even when played very loud.

But then, we come to my much-praised VL-series cabs. I know Mike Dimin thinks that I am living in the past, but these cabs just "do it" for me. Nothing is missing, and nothing is overly present. This makes it kind of hard to critique, although some would call this tone "sterile", and to be honest, I could see that, especially with some instruments. Full, clean, detailed, smooth, clear, and very much full range. I should point out that the VL-110 I used here is one of the newer ones, with the 80 oz. magnet driver (my other two VL-110's have 67 oz. mag. drivers - currently...).

Overall, while the VL stack was the champ of tonal balance, the individual personality of any of the other combos could easily lead someone to choose any one of them over all other takers, if that "personality" happens to hit a home run with you. This little experiment helped me to realize some things that I hadn't noticed before. What I plan to do now is cycle these cabs through at band practice, to get a better idea of how they cut through. So far, in our practice room, I think that the Bergies have cut through the best and blended the best with our guitar player (while still being heard!).

Thanks for "playing!" I hope y'all had fun! :D

Take care, Tom.
 
#50
Great review Tom! Thanks!

I've owned both the Cxl112 and the wizzy and my experience mirrors yours. The wizzy seems to have a bit more in the low mids while the cxl has more super low lows. The Cxl responded well to EQ'ing and IME it would be easier to make the Cxl sound like the wizzy than vice versa.
 
#52
Tom, two questions:

In your 210 shootout, you mentioned that you dimed all the tweeter controls. That's flat on some cabs, and boosted treble on others. Did you use the same methodology for this shootout as well?

Also, how rigorously did you match levels of the various combinations? You mentioned that some were louder at a given (amp?) setting. Did you then adjust for this before reaching any conclusions on tonality?

Fun, interesting read, in any case. Thanks! :cool:
 
#53
tombowlus said:
...I found (to my surprise) that the Mesa Boogie Diesel and RR 4x10's and 2x15's were my favorite cabs, and a number of Thunderbird players do pair up with older Mesa Boogie cabs. FWIW, I still love my Diesel 4x10, and it is actually in the same tonal ballpark as, say two EA VL-210's (but it won't take the power that two VL-210's will).
Click to expand...
Tom, I was thinking… :eek: …I’ve played through some older M-B Diesel 2x10 cabs four or five times in the past (usually using an M-2000 head). I always liked the tone of these cabs from the low end up through the lower midrange.
The Schroeder 410 has a very similar tone in the same range – they’re a little cleaner and tighter, but have quite a bit the same meaty flavor as the M-B nx10 cabs.
Given your stated taste above, I believe that you would really like the Schro 410 (and they're rated at 1400W).
Sorry if I increased your CAS (cab aquisition syndrome). ;)
 
#54
lo-freq said:
Tom, I was thinking… :eek: …I’ve played through some older M-B Diesel 2x10 cabs four or five times in the past (usually using an M-2000 head). I always liked the tone of these cabs from the low end up through the lower midrange.
The Schroeder 410 has a very similar tone in the same range – they’re a little cleaner and tighter, but have quite a bit the same meaty flavor as the M-B nx10 cabs.
Given your stated taste above, I believe that you would really like the Schro 410 (and they're rated at 1400W).
Sorry if I increased your CAS (cab aquisition syndrome). ;)
Click to expand...

At one point, I coined it "GES" - Gear Experience Syndrome. I just want to try it all, and as it turns out, own most of it, too... :D

At any rate, the Schroeders do appear to be something worth checking out.
 
#58
Passinwind said:
Tom, two questions:

In your 210 shootout, you mentioned that you dimed all the tweeter controls. That's flat on some cabs, and boosted treble on others. Did you use the same methodology for this shootout as well?

Also, how rigorously did you match levels of the various combinations? You mentioned that some were louder at a given (amp?) setting. Did you then adjust for this before reaching any conclusions on tonality?

Fun, interesting read, in any case. Thanks! :cool:
Click to expand...

Actually, in the 2x10 "shootout", I had all the tweeter and midrange controls set all the way up. This is considered "flat" on the ACME and Accugroove, but "boosted" on the EA's (in the 2x10 thread). For this test, for the most part, I had the cabs on the bottom with their tweeters off (if they had tweeters) and the cabs on the top with their tweeters (again, for those that had them) set to what the manufacturer considered "normal." The exception would be that the VL-110 (on the bottom) and the VL-208 (on top) did have their midrange drivers turned all the way on.

As for relative volumes, for most testing, with the PLX 3002, I would turn them all up to the same setting, and on the iAMP 800, I left the gain stages alone, and turned the speaker switch on and off while I swappped cabs. At the point where I was playing each setup really stinking loud, I would turn the iAMP up as loud as it would go (with and without "Deep") before I felt like the speakers were starting to not like it. For most cabs, with the "Deep" circuit engaged, you could not turn it up very loud, but the EA cabs took it all with a grin. Hmm... maybe those guys at EA are, like..., using their own cabs when they design an amp!?! ;) :ninja:
 
#60
tombowlus said:
Allow me to explain. As far as 4-strings go, I haven't found any bass that feels better in my hands or sounds better to me than my Thunderbird.
Click to expand...

Heheh, I can relate. My main bass these days is my faux-bird: a Greco ripoff of a '60s T-bird IV. It gets the tone pretty close, and the build quality is good. Neck is in-authentically chunky-feeling though. Great rock bass, and while a bit dark sounding, responds to a treble boost REALLY well.

And, like you, I play it through an oddly modern rig: currently an Eden WT-300 through a pair of EA CXL 112's. Takes a bit of EQ but it can really kill. I just picked up a AI Clarus which may be replacing the Eden, so far I'm really digging it. Wish I could afford the Focus though.

Teaser: Scooperman and I will soon be posting our own mini cab taste test thread: EA CXL-112, Acme B-2, Schroeder 1210, EA VL-110, and some sort of old Hartke 115 that we happened to have on hand.

-PW
 

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