Missing out by not being able to read music?

[SactoBass]

all musicians should be able to read music to some degree....or they are not musicians....they are players.

Then I am proud (and very happy) to be a player of music, according to your definition.

And to think that for the past 40 years of me playing bass, I incorrectly thought that a musician was someone who plays music.

Silly me!! What the heck do *I* know!

Thanks for sharing, and for straightening me out on the facts. I appreciate it.

I guess it's time for someone to contact Paul McCartney to let him know that he isn't a musician. We should probably have Ringo go tell him.

 

[Rudyboy98]

I have lots of respect for all of you that can read. I can't read music at all. I have some experience from chord charts. I play by ear. To boot, I have also toured a little. 30 years of experience playing allows me to "get away" with it. However, I wish I would have had a formal music education. Learn to read music. You should be able to develop your ear...but reading music will allow you to grow exponentially at a much higher level by opening doors for you that would have never opened otherwise.

I did have one experience when I was at a retreat where the guest singer brought in her sheet music. Although I cannot read, I was able to pick out the some of the bass parts while I was listening to the keyboardist playing from the sheet. Again, my ear works in my favor. But don't be the cat that can't figure out what to do.

When I used to teach beginning bass, I taught my students from a book. I was learning right along with them..and they didn't even know I couldn't read. But I definitely made a difference in their education as I taught them the basics. I don't have to read for what is required when people call me. But...if I did..I could almost guarantee that I could get more gigs, get paid more, and teach if I wanted to.

I hope that my .02 helps you!

 

[tbplayer59]

As a middle school algebra teacher, I am often asked by my students, "When am I ever going to use this?" I reply that I can't know what their future holds, only that school at their age is to give them as many options as possible.
I see the same logic applied by the noon-reading arguers here. The OP asked if they were missing out on something by not learning to read music. The only ones who can answer that are those who know how to read music. The non-readers who told the OP not to bother are like the parents of my students who tell their kids that since they were no good at math as a child, they'll probably never be good at math either.
I learned music and some theory as a child, but only started playing written bass parts 7 years ago after playing bass for 25 years. It's opened up a whole new world to me. and yes, sometimes I am asked to play a song without rehearsal. I may not necessarily like Andrew Lloyd Webber and Cats, but I can play two dozen songs, some in 7/4, for 90 minutes without memorizing. I never thought I'd be doing this, but this is where life has brought me and I love it. I get to play music.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I may not necessarily like Andrew Lloyd Webber and Cats, but I can play two dozen songs, some in 7/4, for 90 minutes without memorizing.

Not having to memorize an Andrew Lloyd Webber book to get paid is an extremely compelling argument for learning to read.

 

[topo morto]

I love how people always point out some famous musicians who don't read and act like it's the norm. I also love how people always point out famous musicians who can't read and think everyone is just as equal at making sense of music without reading. Got news for you...if you can make sense of music without knowing how to read, you are the exception, not the rule. Most folks who can't read learn to play a couple riffs till they get bored, then they can't get past it and put their instruments under their bed toll their future wife makes them sell it so she can put her stuff under the bed. Awesome for you that you were able to do it, but it's certainly not the usual result.

Ultimately, unless they're based on statistically sound research and analysis, rather than just someone's personal experience and impressions of the people they know or famous people they are aware of, all such statements are suspect. Most of the musicians I know who read are less able players and writers than the ones I know who don't. But 'people I know' is not a random sample.

Likewise, I suspect more than half of the famous writers whose music I find innovative are non-readers (often you can find them saying so in interviews and such). But I could be wrong.

 

[topo morto]

Let me re-frame this debate. If you had a 14 year old son or daughter who was learning bass, guitar, piano or drums would you encourage them to learn to read music?

Assuming they've grown up around me and not just turned up on the doorstep saying 'hey, so you're my dad' - I hope I would have shown them the basics much earlier than 14. By the time they were 14, encouraging them to read would probably be a sure-fire way to put them off anyway!

Although not analogous, I'd still say it's the same kind of calculation as whether a kid growing up in an English speaking country should learn a couple of foreign languages, say - Chinese and Spanish? It would be terrible not to at least start them off at a young age, but you wouldn't necessarily be too disappointed if they didn't become trilingual, as long as they are doing something worthwhile....

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Ultimately, unless they're based on statistically sound research and analysis, rather than just someone's personal experience and impressions of the people they know or famous people they are aware of, all such statements are suspect. Most of the musicians I know who read are less able players and writers than the ones I know who don't. But 'people I know' is not a random sample.

Likewise, I suspect more than half of the famous writers whose music I find innovative are non-readers (often you can find them saying so in interviews and such). But I could be wrong.

I'm not so keen on making much of a connection between reading and music I like. Much of the rock and blues and country that's a huge part of my musical outlook was made by illiterates. Being musically illiterate is not necessarily a a limiting factor to making great art. Illiteracy is limiting though to making a living playing western classical or popular music today.

 

[topo morto]

As a middle school algebra teacher, I am often asked by my students, "When am I ever going to use this?"

If it's that often, maybe you could try a little harder to use examples that actually show them the relevance?

I reply that I can't know what their future holds, only that school at their age is to give them as many options as possible.

Oh man. I hate it when teachers do that.

If you are not showing them now how algebra is a tool that solves real life problems, then for some kids it might be you who is responsible for cutting down their later options.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

If it's that often, maybe you could try a little harder to use examples that actually show them the relevance?



Oh man. I hate it when teachers do that.

If you are not showing them now how algebra is a tool that solves real life problems, then for some kids it might be you who is responsible for cutting down their later options.

Jeez man lighten up. If there are no "real life" situations that are within the extremely limited experience of a school kid then what? There's nothing you could have told me that would have made me interested in algebra when I was 16. Fast forward a couple of decades when I'm making a living as a stage rigger and I need a solid working knowledge of algebra I wished like a mother ****er I'd learned it back in high school. I'm not sure you understand the teacher/student relationship very well....

 

[topo morto]

I'm not so keen on making much of a connection between reading and music I like. Much of the rock and blues and country that's a huge part of my musical outlook was made by illiterates. Being musically illiterate is not necessarily a a limiting factor to making great art. Illiteracy is limiting though to making a living playing western classical or popular music today.

+1

 

[topo morto]

Jeez man lighten up. If there are no "real life" situations that are within the extremely limited experience of a school kid then what?

Then you have to do your best to put them in those situations (within the limits of legality and safety, of course!).

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Then you have to do your best to put them in those situations (within the limits of legality and safety, of course!).

That I agree with completely.

 

[squidtastic]

In my experience with jazz (which was a musical detour for me), I almost always just got lead sheets -- very rarely did I have notated parts. Lead sheets don't require much in the way of reading; just know your way around the neck and fill in the blanks . It depends what style you play, of course.

That said, I do wish I were better at reading notation, but I don't think you learn to "grab anything in any style" by reading; you do that by listening, then practicing/playing. Even the most detailed notation can't convey all the nuances of an actual performance. I particularly noticed this when I spent some time shedding contemporary latin music. Some of the bass lines I was hearing were incredibly dynamic. I just never came across a chart that conveyed the nuance of the recordings/performances I heard.

So, learn to read as long as you feel you're getting something out of it, but don't assume it'll enable you to play everything convincingly.

 

[topo morto]

I'm not sure you understand the teacher/student relationship very well....

Possibly not, though I was a teacher for a while (only an ESL one mind!)

I do realise that teachers work under terrible constraints most of the time. But you can't teach things in a 'disembodied' way and expect it to be effective.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Possibly not, though I was a teacher for a while (only an ESL one mind!)

I do realise that teachers work under terrible constraints most of the time. But you can't teach things in a 'disembodied' way and expect it to be effective.

You're right and I have serious issues with the school system. I just don't think it's very fair to go after individual teachers for the failings of the system. You ever read John Taylor Gatto? He has some interesting observations.

 

[Fergie Fulton]

Then I am proud (and very happy) to be a player of music, according to your definition.

And to think that for the past 40 years of me playing bass, I incorrectly thought that a musician was someone who plays music.

Silly me!! What the heck do *I* know!

Thanks for sharing, and for straightening me out on the facts. I appreciate it.

LOL sorry i thought you were a civil engineer and our work paths would never cross, now i learn i am a civil engineer...for the past fifty years of cutting the grass, digging the garden, making flower beds, altering the look of the land, defines me as a Civil Engineer, i can dig holes , i have no idea how to read drawing, plans etc...but i am civil engineer it seems.

Since I am a working civil engineer and you are a working musician, I don't think you and I will have to worry about taking any business away from each other, so it's all good!

So can you imagine the senario at a profesional level where i keep telling you and other Civil Enginners how things are and how things work based on the my civil engineering experience?.........i think i would not be taken serious and laughed out of the room.

I guess it's time for someone to contact Paul McCartney to let him know that he isn't a musician. We should probably have Ringo go tell him.

As has been said, Paul knows how to write music, so also read it to a degree that suits him, he started as a song writer and a guitarist, he is now also a composer, and has all the time and money to waste on his musical projects of he so chooses.....remember he picked up the bass because no one else in the Beatles would play the bass after Stuart Sutcliffe left..... please do not confuse anyone fame with what they are.
Rather than waste Ringo's time i will mention it the next time we met if you want.

Anyone and everyone has an opinion, everyone is a critic, so i am used to being analysed, critiqued, pulled a part etc it goes with the job....none of it i take personally, again one of the job skills of being a musician.....never take anything personal. What i get criticised for others get praised for and visa versa......music is subjective, as are the skills of those that play it.

Like i said, i find out now i am a civil engineer..... but who will hire me and on what grounds?........just sayin'....

from a Civil Musician to a Civil Engineer

 

[topo morto]

@jeff: You are right. Apologies to tbplayer. But teachers can do their bit in changing the way things are!
Work time now for me. Not sure if I've heard of JTG - will look him up.

@Fergie: Which episode of 'Seconds from Disaster' was it where hundreds of people died because of a badly-executed key change?

 

[Fergie Fulton]

I'm not so keen on making much of a connection between reading and music I like. Much of the rock and blues and country that's a huge part of my musical outlook was made by illiterates. Being musically illiterate is not necessarily a a limiting factor to making great art. Illiteracy is limiting though to making a living playing western classical or popular music today.

And this comes around and around in time itself within music. Music in the Western World where i live and work will envelop a style or a culture and make it part of it as defined by the music theory, if no theory exists then the theory of any new music form is analysed, and new notation symbols developed to deal with it.....much like tab developed....tab is theory...tab is notation and has valid uses in valid situations....as does the numbers systems.

But SN, theory, etc is never limiting...that is the player, not any theory that is limiting, that is the player thinking of how it should be used, rather than how it can be used.

So you do not read....not an issue, but it is limiting and that is a fact, bit within music there are many levels of limitation.
Being able to read is part of it, the experience to interpret what is on the page is another thing completely..thats why Branagh plays Hamlet and Stallone plays Rambo....but they can both read the scripts.

 

[White Beard]

Hey yall
I ain't never lernt to read none but I talks the American pertty good
I sine my name with a x
all y'all you yankys wit yer book lernins aint no smart as me
Erf is flat and G in G major be the dominant cuz it dominates the key
reedin am for dandys
me just smart as the rest yall that talk the music talk and rite the american riten that I riten now
Riten music riten aint no diffrent n talkn Merican talk n riten Merican riten not riten or reedin music riten dont make no one dummer n yoo.

Lets jam.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Assuming they've grown up around me and not just turned up on the doorstep saying 'hey, so you're my dad' - I hope I would have shown them the basics much earlier than 14. By the time they were 14, encouraging them to read would probably be a sure-fire way to put them off anyway!

Although not analogous, I'd still say it's the same kind of calculation as whether a kid growing up in an English speaking country should learn a couple of foreign languages, say - Chinese and Spanish? It would be terrible not to at least start them off at a young age, but you wouldn't necessarily be too disappointed if they didn't become trilingual, as long as they are doing something worthwhile....

I'm guessing from your response that you are a relatively young person with no kids and a music hobbyist (perhaps with pro aspirations/dreams). Am I correct?
FWIW, I started playing electric bass at age 14, although I learned to read music at 12 in choir and band. I do a bit of private teaching as well and I would say that 14 seems to be the age that a lot of kids in the US pick up the bass (this is based on observation of about 10 years of private teaching).
When my son (who is 28 but no longer plays) was 8 he became interested in bass. I got him a Fender Mustang and started showing him "Iron Man", "Crazy Train", and Beatles songs. At 8 you really want to make this more about Fun-they're kids. In general my cut-off age for a bass student is about 10 and I prefer 12. It's just asking a lot to get an 8 year old to focus on anything, IME.
If you do decide to give it one more chance I would recommend studying with my friends Steve Lawson or Joe Hubbard if they are nearby. Both are great players and more importantly great teachers.