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Missing out by not being able to read music?

#283
Fergie Fulton said:
If you cannot read or write you are illiterate, whether you like it or not, that is what illiterate means, it has nothing to do with being stupid.
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You are correct.

I still don't feel comfortable calling someone illiterate to their face. It just doesn't sound very nice. Purely my opinion there. I think it would make the person feel stupid. (Remember the golden rule of communication: it's not how the speaker intended it, it's how the receiver perceived it.)

Like walking up to a girl who is a bit overweight and saying "hey, you are fat". You would be technically correct, but then there's the question of whether you really needed to say it in the first place.

The OP asked if he would be missing out on anything by not learning to read music. IMO, there is no definitive answer. For me, I would not have missed out on anything. For someone else, it could mean the difference between success and failure. So it depends on who you are and what your goals are.
 
#284
topo morto said:
Sacto, You're a better man than I. Personally I can't cope any more with these dot readers with their "if you only try, you could be like us" attitudes.

Why don't these guys stop wasting their time in music forums, and think of some more things in life they could notate?

Maybe there could be a notation for how to paint, for example? Oh, it's called 'join-the-dots'. And a real boon to creativity it is too.

OK, a notation for sex then? You could brag to your friends so much more easily and efficiently, and there'd be fewer misunderstandings with hookers that didn't speak your language.
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The use of 'us' is a very broad brush, so you must assume that someone that reads in classical music or film scores has the same musical ideas as myself who is predominantly Blues......i share none of the musical aspirations of how they choose to to use their skills, no more than you are using your literacy skills to communicate your thoughts and ideas on this page......would you not find it easier to go to meetings and talk to all about these great ideas you seem to believe that are out there you seem to think shackle us to SN.

I know that these threads get heated, but that is because the people that start them are usually non-readers......i have yet to see one that starts, "you should all learn to read because.." from a pro reading perspective every week.

You should remember that many people have to make their living playing music, so that means reading and that means many many different things, and as Jimmy M pointed out pages back, those that do not have the experience of using SN or reading skills cannot make any constructive comments or conclussions about its benefits.......or disadvantages.
 
#286
I learned how to read music as a child when I took piano lessons. It has enriched my life immeasurably, allowing me to understand aspects and dimensions of musical enjoyment that I would never have otherwise had the chance to experience. On the other hand, I have never -- in 27 years -- ever needed to sight read a piece of music for bass guitar. A good understanding of music theory was enough to get me in with better and better players who continue to help fill in the blanks for me.

So yes, I would learn to read music. My advice to the OP is to take a theory class.
 
#287
SactoBass said:
You are correct.

I still don't feel comfortable calling someone illiterate to their face. It just doesn't sound very nice. Purely my opinion there. I think it would make the person feel stupid. (Remember the golden rule of communication: it's not how the speaker intended it, it's how the receiver perceived it.)

Like walking up to a girl who is a bit overweight and saying "hey, you are fat". You would be technically correct, but then there's the question of whether you really needed to say it in the first place.

The OP asked if he would be missing out on anything by not learning to read music. IMO, there is no definitive answer. For me, I would not have missed out on anything. For someone else, it could mean the difference between success and failure. So it depends on who you are and what your goals are.
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LOL of course you wouldn't walk up to someone, but if they came to you about weight issues, if it was your job, say a doctor, dietician, health or medical professional, then saying to any fat person "you are fat" is what the job will require you to say, you can dress it up, but the intention is the same......surely....or do you think you just massage an ego so as not to hurt their feelings?

Being criticised, is part of the job, we learn that criticism is not personal, so you take on board the points being made so we do not get criticised again......constantly being criticised gets you fired because you are incapable of doing what is needed by the band leader, MD, producer etc.

I find that those that take things personal within a musical situation really are not pro musician material...and i have seen plenty of great players with great talent go to waste because they could not cut it and make money, not from the music...that is the easy part, but the whole package.
I mean you just read what is on the page how hard a job is that.....?
It no different to a news reader....they do not learn and commit to memory the news and headlines every day, they just read it.....but its not a job everyone can do because the criteria and demands are defined by others.....in the same way others define what musicians in pro working band get to play. :)

I hope this helps you get the just that music has many situations and reading is the easiest one because it requires you to just read, not think, not create, not embellish, but just read......and as far as i am concerned the less players that learn to read, the more work and better money there is for me.;)
 
#288
SactoBass said:
That is entirely true.............for some musicians.
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Sorry, but all musicians, maybe not all players, but all musicians should be able to read music to some degree....or they are not musicians....they are players.

So if i hire a band of musicians they play what i want them to play, not what they can play...if i hire a team of painters, they paint my house how i want it, not what they can paint, if i hire...well you get the point.

I come from a background that defines uses, so there is no confusion on what you have to do or what is being asked of you...again it is a simple concept of doing what you are told, so it is discipline more than reading...as i said worked with many a great player that could not handle the discipline rather than the music.:)
 
#289
Ric5 said:
Famous Musicians who don't read music

Beatles
Van Halen
Pink Floyd
Rolling Stones
Bee Gees
Bob Dylan
Adrian Belew
Jimi Hendrix
Eric Clapton
Slash
Curt Cobain
Lionel Richie
Tom Petty
Jimmy Page
Stevie Ray Vaughn
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They were famous that's for sure but it also not very challenging and all those band/"artist" had people in the studio writing backing music for hired musician.
 
#290
Fergie Fulton said:
The use of 'us' is a very broad brush, so you must assume that someone that reads in classical music or film scores has the same musical ideas as myself who is predominantly Blues......
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Insofar as I'm not just having fun, I'm talking about some comments which seem to display the attitude I mentioned.

Fergie Fulton said:
I know that these threads get heated, but that is because the people that start them are usually non-readers......i have yet to see one that starts, "you should all learn to read because.." from a pro reading perspective every week.
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They are often like that by page 2 though... I usually stay out, but this time I was weak. :)

Fergie Fulton said:
You should remember that many people have to make their living playing music, so that means reading and that means many many different things, and as Jimmy M pointed out pages back, those that do not have the experience of using SN or reading skills cannot make any constructive comments or conclussions about its benefits.......or disadvantages.
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And yet the 'readers', who should enjoy a better perspective, are rarely happy at the suggestion that there's any limitation to what notation can do. And woe betide he who dare suggest that it might in some ways be responsible for locking some people into a certain way of thinking unless they can conceptually separate 'music' from 'the notation of music' (I think there is an example earlier in the thread of someone who couldn't see the difference).

IIRC someone earlier in the thread called notation 'perfect'. It's not, and it has drawbacks and limitations as a notation system along with the consideration that for many activities any notation system is unnecessary and perhaps even unhelpful. And you don't necessarily need to understand a particular notation system to deduce that.

This is not to disagree with your point, just putting the other angle.
 
#291
Reading has its place but in a world of rocker and bar gig ... it sure isn't needed ...

go in a orchestra and try showing 60 peoples their respective part by playing it to them ... or tell them to created whatever ... it will be a giant mess. Same thing in a big band, same for many musicians that played jazz.
 
#292
topo morto said:
And yet the 'readers', who should enjoy a better perspective, And woe betide he who dare suggest that it might in some ways be responsible for locking some people into a certain way of thinking unless they can conceptually separate 'music' from 'the notation of music'
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And there is also a lot of non reader that can only play what they previously heard and can't do s*** if someone else didn't show them or if they didn't have the time to pick the overall chords from a recording.
 
#296
I love how people always point out some famous musicians who don't read and act like it's the norm. I also love how people always point out famous musicians who can't read and think everyone is just as equal at making sense of music without reading. Got news for you...if you can make sense of music without knowing how to read, you are the exception, not the rule. Most folks who can't read learn to play a couple riffs till they get bored, then they can't get past it and put their instruments under their bed toll their future wife makes them sell it so she can put her stuff under the bed. Awesome for you that you were able to do it, but it's certainly not the usual result.

And re: the difficulty of learning it later in life...my wife learned how to read music at 38 when she wanted to learn how to play piano. Taught herself the basics within a few days. Unfortunately, she didn't pursue it, but she did learn it as much as someone who spends a couple hours a day for a month could.
 
#297
Ric5 said:
Famous Musicians who don't read music

Beatles-Sir George Martin their producer and arranger of songs on Revolver, Abbey Road and Sergeant Pepper did.
Van Halen-believe it or not at one point he invited Jeff Berlin to join the band!
Pink Floyd-Tony Levin (bassist on some Pink Floyd tracks) does
Rolling Stones-Darryl Jones and Chuck Leavell do. Stanley Clarke (bassist in The New Barbarians with Keith Richards and Ron Wood) does
Bee Gees-The Bonnaroo Horns and their last rhythm section Matt Bonnelli (bass) and Steve Rucker (drums) do
Bob Dylan-He's done a ton of albums, I'm sure I can find a reading session cat somewhere, probably Al Kooper on Like A Rolling Stone
Adrian Belew-Mike Sharfe (bass on Twang Bar King)does, the late Larrie London (drums on several albums as well as Journey's Steve Perry's solo album) did
Jimi Hendrix-Mike Finnegan (organ on Rainy Day, Dream Away) does
Eric Clapton-Nathan East (bass), Steve Gadd (drums), and Greg Philliganes (keys) do
Slash-not sure
Curt Cobain-a very short career, brilliant music, drug abuse, suicide, not a long-term career strategy
Lionel Richie-a lot of his LA touring band does-a friend of mine auditioned for the gig in the 80s
Tom Petty-not sure, I don't know if Steve Ferrone reads, the bassist on Don't Come Around Here No More is Dean Garcia (bassist with The Eurhythmics and session bassist for Pete Townsend) so I'm willing to bet he reads as a lot of UK session bassists do
Jimmy Page-Byron House (bass w/Band of Joy) does, as does John Paul Jones
Stevie Ray Vaughn-Reese Wynans does
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Let me re-frame this debate. If you had a 14 year old son or daughter who was learning bass, guitar, piano or drums would you encourage them to learn to read music?
 
#299
JimmyM said:
Well I wish everyone luck in their music, no matter how far they want to pursue it. All I can tell you is I would be working a day job if not for reading music, and a bad day playing music beats a good day anywhere else as far as I'm concerned ;).
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Right there with you, Jimmy! I just looked at next weekend and I would be making $100 instead of $600 if I couldn't read, so it makes a difference in my world. I don't have to go out and get beat up in clubs playing until 2 AM unless I want to. ;)
Needless to say my Day Gig as a College Bass Teacher would be a total non-starter as well.
 
#300
Fergie Fulton said:
as far as i am concerned the less players that learn to read, the more work and better money there is for me.;)
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And I wish you all the success in that endeavor that life has to offer, my friend.

Since I am a working civil engineer and you are a working musician, I don't think you and I will have to worry about taking any business away from each other, so it's all good!
 

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