Missing out by not being able to read music?

[topo morto]

If you set your tempo so that a whole note = 150 ms, then a sixteenth note would be 9.375 ms, so a whole note tied to sixteenth would be 159.375 ms. It's not quite exactly 161 ms, but considering that the difference of <2 ms is probably within the threshold of error of even the most skilled virtuoso performer, does it really matter?

In other words, your example really doesn't illustrate any problem with music notation as it is used and applied in real world performance scenarios.

that would be an interesting way of doing the long note. But how would you notate the short note? You'd have to tie a whole bunch of notes together, wouldn't you?

So are you trying to tell me you can sustain a note to the proper millisecond instead of playing in time and counting?

No disrespect, but giving me "timings" seems almost like a troll argument. Hopefully you are not serious.

I can't time to the exact millisecond, but that's my limitation - and I can get close by thinking of it as putting in a tiny bit of 'bounce' or 'swing'. Of course a computer can play to the exact millisecond, and dance musicians fine-tune their beats by nudging things around by tiny amounts, just as great drummers do (however subconsciously).


Anyway this is focusing way too much on timing, which is far from the worst aspect of standard notation - in fact it's one of the better aspects! I was just saying that you certainly can't notate precise timings any better than you can in tab (when the tab is in a clear grid-form, as I hopefully clarified above.)

 

[topo morto]

It's like me, as an english speaker, saying that standard written english language is not a good way writing english.

Well, if you could think of a better way of writing English, you could suggest it!

A few hundred years ago, King Sejong of Korea decided that Chinese characters weren't a good way of writing, and invented (or at least started) a whole new written alphabet, which is what's in use today.

It's kind of an ignorant statement, considering the rich history of music that's been conveyed and played by the world's best composers and musicians over many hundreds of years.

A lot of whom didn't, and many of whom still don't, use standard western notation - how is this relevant?

 

[lfmn16]

Any thoughts?

Yes - try the search engine, read the 10,000+ posts that have already been written on this and bring something new to the debate.

As far as reading - if you are a musical genius then don't bother to learn to read or learn theory, you'll get by fine. If you are like the rest of us, you could probably use all the help you can get.

Don't ask someone that can't read music if it is worth it; they don't know. It's like a college education; most of the people that think it's not worth it are the one that don't have it.

The creative arts is one of the few fields where some people still think ignorance is an advantage and brag about their lack of knowledge.

 

[topo morto]

Furthermore, how does one translate TAB to other non-grid based instruments?

This is beyond ludicrous! The very idea is micro-minded.

Agreed - tab is very specific to fretted, stringed instruments. It's not appropriate to write tab for the piano. That doesn't mean that stave is a good general purpose notation either.

 

[sobie18]

Get a fearful...

 

[Febs]

that would be an interesting way of doing the long note. But how would you notate the short note? You'd have to tie a whole bunch of notes together, wouldn't you?

You could write it as a dotted half note tied to a dotted eighth note.

Again, though, this is a theoretical solution to a notation problem that doesn't exist in the real world.

I was just saying that you certainly can't notate precise timings any better than you can in tab (when the tab is in a clear grid-form, as I hopefully clarified above.)

Woah! Now that's just flat out wrong. Standard notation is far, far better at notating precise timing than tab.

 

[sobie18]

Get a fearful...

Oops...wrong thread...

 

[sean_on_bass]

@ topo

With the advent of technology we may see different ways of communicating music to each other crop up that rival standard notation, but its just not standardized yet.

Notation does leave out some variables, but not many. Dynamics, feel, style, can all be notated. Sure, note length is pretty much "set", but you can suggest a style to play in and the player will know what to do. But you are correct in that it comes down to individual interpretation and that one player may play it differently than the other.

All this is moot though unless you have a better way of doing things. Standard notation is still the standard and for good reason. I'm not even sure why we would need the accuracy you are suggesting with regards to note lengths.

 

[topo morto]

Get a fearful...

 

[sobie18]

Learn to read and KEEP THAT DOOR OPEN....ya never know when you will need it.

 

[tbplayer59]

Maybe I have got a wrong impression about some tab. When I look at tabs, they are always laid out as a grid, in a monospaced font. So in 4/4, four crotchets in tab could be


----------------
----------------
----------------
0---0---0---0---

with each '-' representing a semiquaver.



Not in an all-encompassing way though - swing, rubato, tempo changes, playing behind the beat, polyrhythms, drones....

No, of course not all-encompassing, but it's far superior to tab or any other system. The point is that learning to read music is better than not learning to read music.

I will argue that swing is noted, tempo changes are noted, dynamics are noted, etc. It's more than just the staff and clefs and dots and circles. There's all those Italian words and their abbreviations. Not perfect, but pretty darn good.

 

[topo morto]

There are two ways to do this, you can find a common denominator Mathematically and use those variations (that would almost be unreadable) or you could write a series of 8th/16th/whatever notes and give verbal instructions (acc. and rit.) about how to do the adjustments in feel.

I suppose that's the 'ace in the hole' for standard music notation - you can work round its limitations by writing a load of stuff around it!

Woah! Now that's just flat out wrong. Standard notation is far, far better at notating precise timing than tab.

If the tab shows a grid, it can show the same level of timing information, as I showed in a previous post.

 

[topo morto]

The point is that learning to read music is better than not learning to read music.

Probably. But unless you're a lazybones, that's not the dilemma - it's 'Learn to read music' vs 'Learn something else'. And knowing that 'something else' is probably much better than not knowing it too.

 

[AngelCrusher]

I can't time to the exact millisecond, but that's my limitation - and I can get close by thinking of it as putting in a tiny bit of 'bounce' or 'swing'. Of course a computer can play to the exact millisecond, and dance musicians fine-tune their beats by nudging things around by tiny amounts, just as great drummers do (however subconsciously).


Anyway this is focusing way too much on timing, which is far from the worst aspect of standard notation - in fact it's one of the better aspects! I was just saying that you certainly can't notate precise timings any better than you can in tab (when the tab is in a clear grid-form, as I hopefully clarified above.)

Yes you can easily get better precise timings because that is why music is written how it is! It clearly shows you exactly the timing of each note and phrase.

You are coming at it from a guy who programs MIDI. Thats not even close to actually playing music. I have worked with some very good EDM producers and played bass on Deep House tracks and they work backwards. They make their music quantized and then have to slide it around to try and get the same feel as a live player.

The stuff you are saying is just not accurate at all. I am sorry, but it has been pointed out by other posters besides myself.

 

[Febs]

If the tab shows a grid, it can show the same level of timing information, as I showed in a previous post.

How does your example show the duration of each note? What if you want to play one of the four quarter notes shorter than the others?

 

[bassbully]

Depends if you are set on playing in a cover band..then no. If you want to go further and play in a jazz group or band that shows and up reads and plays from charts .. then yes.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

If the tab shows a grid, it can show the same level of timing information, as I showed in a previous post.

Very true. Actually, tab written out well (can't stress this enough) can be pretty much on par with notation, if not better since it shows you fingerings and shapes.

 

[carlthegroover]

I agree with learning notation, even if you don't need it right now. It's proving hard as hell to me, but I'm making an effort to at least achieve a competent level of sight reading. I want to eventually learn jazz, so I think notation will help me loads once I get the hang of it.

I also agree because, as some others said, it is still the standard way of writing music for a reason: there isn't a better alternative yet. And even if it were, it would have to be very well known and used to become standardized... and that wouldn't probably happen in our lifetime.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Of course, you could come up with an alternative to the English alphabet-let's call it Alpha-TAB.
T1=the
Q 15=quality
O2= of
M33=mercy
I2=is
N43=not
S55=strange.
Now some Shakespeare:
T1 Q15 O2 M33 I2 N43 S55
See how easy it was? Now I'll proceed to some Plato.....

 

[carlthegroover]

Very true. Actually, tab written out well (can't stress this enough) can be pretty much on par with notation, if not better since it shows you fingerings and shapes.

ONLY on bass and guitar (and other related, fretted instruments). Or would you attempt to play a violin or a saxophone with tabs? That's pretty limiting in and of itself. But would you attempt to play a song for cello on a bass using only standard notation? Yes, it would be perfectly doable.

Nothing wrong with good tabs, though. They're just not meant to substitute standard notation.