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Double Bass Mixing pickup + mic for live sound

unbrokenchain

unbrokenchain

Jun 8, 2011
1,357
2,273
41
Black Mountain, NC
#1
I'm attempting to run a mixed signal of K&K bassmax plus a condenser mic into my amp/front of house. I need phantom power to run the condenser, but phantom power to the K&K makes it really noisy.

Is there a device (aside from a large mixing console) that can mix two signals, one a phantom-powered XLR, the other a passive 1/4", into one signal? Ideally it'd have EQ and both 1/4" and XLR out, but I'll take what I can get.
 
#3
The K&K Dual Channel Pro pre-amp will take two input signals and blend them, however they need to either be two mono 1/4" inputs (for the standard pre-amp) or one stereo 1/4" input (for the ST model). They will blend two of either pickups or mics with individual EQ for each, but they do not support phantom power.
 
#5
While the Felix and other mentioned preamps are fine pieces of gear, I leave it up to the FOH engineer to decide how much pickup and microphone to use in the FOH mix. Thus, I send two individual signals (DI/pickup and mic). The sound/mix/balance that we feel is appropriate on stage may not be what works best out in the room in the context of a band. The caveat is that you've got to have a FOH engineer that knows what they are doing.

I also never run any microphone signal on stage through an amp-- pickup only through stage amps and monitors.
 
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#6
unbrokenchain said:
Thanks for the tip Ric, looks like the EDB-2 will do exactly what I'm looking for, wish it were half the price though!

And thanks dhergert too - I've been looking at the K&K preamps, too bad no options with phantom power.
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UBC,
In my estimation you get what you pay for. You do see EDB-2's in the Talkbass Classifieds, Ebay, or Reverb. You have to remember that the warranty is I believe two years. So, if you did have an issue with a used unit, you'd have to pay the postage back and forth to Great Britian to have it looked at. I've looked at the K&K and didn't think it would work for me, because I'm using either a DPA 4099D vote or the Remic 5400LB, or Remic 5400 which require phantom power.
 
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#7
Pat Harris said:
While the Felix and other mentioned preamps are fine pieces of gear, I leave it up to the FOH engineer to decide how much pickup and microphone to use in the FOH mix. Thus, I send two individual signals (DI/pickup and mic). The sound/mix/balance that we feel is appropriate on stage may not be what works best out in the room in the context of a band. The caveat is that you've got to have a FOH engineer that knows what they are doing.

I also never run any microphone signal on stage through an amp-- pickup only through stage amps and monitors.
Click to expand...

I hear ya! I don't need any extra gear to run this way, but some of my gigs are a duo project with a very soft-playing singer-songwriter. Many of such gigs are close enough quarters that the audience is getting the same sound as the stage (that is, if I can hear my amp, so can they). The K&K works great for cutting through with drummers and horn players, but the arco sound is just too harsh for very delicate music, so I'm hoping adding the condenser option will help. It certainly sounds much better at home and I've been able to get more volume-before-feedback than I expected.
 
#8
The EDB2 is awesome but would be even better if it had eq for each channel. As I play 50/50 arco/pizz I have progressivly stopped using my bass max mixed with my DPA mic through my EDB2 as I have found that it is colouring the sound in a way that takes away from the natural tone of my bass. With careful placement / angle of the DPA 5099 I can usually get enough volume before feedback... I always carry the bas max though just in case... Usually at shows where there's front of house if we get decent sound checks its all good... if its just a walk up and plug in type thing I'll have the bass max ready to go just in case... but arco.. with spiros it can be a bit edgy until i dial in my bow arm...
 
#9
what the pluck said:
but arco.. with spiros it can be a bit edgy until i dial in my bow arm...
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That's it, and also having the soundperson EQ it properly is huge. I've started using a cheap MXR EQ pedal that I only engage when playing arco with the bassmax; I essentially drop everything 1khz and above to almost nothing, only then does it start to tame the "ripping paper" kind of arco tone.

I've found a cheat in the meantime til I can get an EDB2, and that's just to run a line out of a mic preamp into the aux in on my GK amp, then I can mix it with the pickup :) Knew that input would be good for something.
 
#12
what the pluck said:
The EDB2 is awesome but would be even better if it had eq for each channel. As I play 50/50 arco/pizz I have progressivly stopped using my bass max mixed with my DPA mic through my EDB2 as I have found that it is colouring the sound in a way that takes away from the natural tone of my bass. With careful placement / angle of the DPA 5099 I can usually get enough volume before feedback... I always carry the bas max though just in case... Usually at shows where there's front of house if we get decent sound checks its all good... if its just a walk up and plug in type thing I'll have the bass max ready to go just in case... but arco.. with spiros it can be a bit edgy until i dial in my bow arm...
Click to expand...

Perhaps, it’s not necessarily the EDB-2, but a combination of other things. Tried as I may, I could never get enough useable volume out of the DPA 4099B, to play with anything larger than a trio. Like you I loved the sound, but the DPA-4099B has it’s limitations. Once I moved to a Ehrlund EAP with the EDB-2 I could get a better sound and at higher volumes, than the DPA was capable of. The same is true with the Remic Green.
Spirocore’s are by their very nature quite edgy, having switchable EQ would be great, so that’s where a full dual channel, EQ can really be helpful. What I eventually found was that changing over to Evah Parazzi Weich’s gave me a good edge like Spiro’s did and a lovely bowed sound. I didn’t need to switch back and forth between two different EQ’s
 
#13
The Zoom A3 has 48V phantom power. Try to find a preamp at that price that has that. I know, I know, the A3 is designed as an effect pedal, but it is usable as a preamp too. It's discontinued, but I've bought one of those that are still out there and if you're quick enough you'll find one too. You might also like (some of) the effects it offers.
 

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