More IEM questions. But really...

[s0c9]

i really depended on the IEM threads (and members like @s0c9/others) who drilled in the seal thing --- such a simple concept --- but it's the make-or-break with IEMs.

IEMs that work correctly are a must for someone who plays as seriously as you do --- i wish you the best of luck with this, joe!

+1000%
No seal.. NO BASS! A deal breaker for anyone on bass..
That said.. seal is relative.
I've seen comments in this thread saying one doesn't need customs. Well yes, and maybe no! It depends on one's ears!
In my case, universal fit DO NOT WORK for me. They will NOT seal and "pop" whenever I sing, turn my head or open my mouth.
I've said before that I tried every kind of tip & size on the market... none worked. I was talking to an audiologist about this during a hearing test. I was told to get customs. Small ear canals!
For those whose ear canals are large enough, find the tips that seal. There's PLENTY of good (cheap) universal's out there like the KZ series (ZS5, ZS6, AS10, etc) that will give good audio!
However, custom shells are made to fit YOUR ears specifically - hence the impressions!

although joe's band might be flirting with goofy on-stage volumes: a proper seal will make that a non-issue! i know it may sound too-good-to-be-true, but the right seal does exactly that = you only hear what you want to hear, and you can't get that without IEMs. i still use the stink-eye when i work with wedges.

IME:
wedges = "i wish they weren't so damb loud...time for the stink-eye!"
properly sealed IEMs = i honestly don't care what they do --- i'm protected!


IME/IMO a great seal is a done deal. period. custom molds are probably better for comfort, for most people, for long hauls.

Again +1000%
Gotta have that seal. That seal SHOULD lockout external audio.
As a measure (With no audio playing), the seal should provide about the same level of noise reduction as sticking your fingers in your ears.
If you're not getting that much, then the seal ain't happening.

 

[JRA]

I've seen comments in this thread saying one doesn't need customs.

yeah, and i may be contributing to that 'tilt' based on my own experience, i.e., i didn't get what the IEM experience really was (could be) until i figured out what a difference the seal made...as you said, no seal = no bass. and just as important to me: no ability to no isolate and no ability to balance things, properly...it's all about that damb seal!

i learned a lot from reading those threads and discussions, but finally getting the experience of "the seal" changed everything for me. i happen to be able to use generic tips (certain size, certain shape; variants can work, but not as well).

re: joe, i was thinking that he's not getting the seal benefits. the fact that what he was hearing made him uncomfortable made me think it was a seal issue: the volume of the live stage environment wasn't attenuated properly against the monitor mix he would have liked to achieve in order to save his hearing.

i'm thinking that the vast majority of folks could use the generics to at least come up with 'a great seal experience' even if they found them to be unreliable, uncomfortable, or otherwise untenable for the long haul. but then they'd at least know what to expect from customs: isolation, mix balancing, bass as you please, volume as you please, reliabilty, comfort, yada yada......

seal, seal, seal --- the seal is the deal!

 

[monkeyfinger]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but what are you doing for you IEM mix? Is it mono or stereo? Does each player have an individual mix? These factors can really make a difference.

 

[SoulReflection]

We're not ridiculously loud, but a subwoofer is always right next to and in front of me, as are the horn players - and they don't have IEMs. They use a wedge and sometimes start blowing me out with it. I get front of house, subs, my amp (which I keep low), and the floor monitor - plus my IEMs that are getting too much outside bleed. Gets really tough some nights, especially if we're in a big room. Add in the weird phasing thing mentioned above, and it makes things very un-fun.

Being almost deaf, I would take my hearing aids out and be fine .

 

[s0c9]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but what are you doing for you IEM mix? Is it mono or stereo? Does each player have an individual mix? These factors can really make a difference.

And... depending on the # of instruments in the band (+ horn section in @Joe Nerve's case) the ability to pan in the (stereo) mix makes things FAR easier to identify and recognize.
With 3 horns, a single channel feed might be fine, but some may want to blend those themselves. If there's multiple guitars, panning them relative to stage location REALLY helps!
With a MONO mix it tends to blend and might cause ear fatigue sooner than an equivalent stereo mix.

And.. keep in mind.. one is not listening to a CD in your IEM's. Put in your IEM mix what you need to do your job!
If [at church for example] you don't need the 2nd acoustic or electric guitar as they don't do anything but fill space - LEAVE them out of your mix.

In MY case.. I seldom put toms, ride or OH's in my mix. All I need is kick, snare and hat (if available). The rest is clutter - especially with a mono mix!
Try it.. you might clean up your IEM mix and like your IEM's!!
I can't play without mine....
YMMV

 

[Fun Size Nick]

How much did people here pay for impressions? My band told me $75. I assumed that was for both. Just called audiologist near me and was told $75 each. Waitin on my my mates to get back to me, but thought I'd ask here in the meantime.

This is really going to differ by where the people giving you answers are based depending on things like local cost of doing business/cost of living/supply & demand. I could tell you how much I paid in Hong Kong but it wouldn't help you much. I suspect that people who got their impressions done in a small town in the US are going to balk at what you'd likely pay in NYC. Your best bet would be to ask around in your local area to figure out what 'normal' looks like where you are.

 

[Ricky Caboverde]

I have older quads from 64audio (1964Ears Qi), and love them. They were around $400 at the time. I’ve also heard good things about InEarz from folks on a tighter budget. You don’t have to spend JHS bucks to get decent IEMs, though I’m sure you won’t regret it if you do.

 

[Joe Nerve]

This is really going to differ by where the people giving you answers are based depending on things like local cost of doing business/cost of living/supply & demand. I could tell you how much I paid in Hong Kong but it wouldn't help you much. I suspect that people who got their impressions done in a small town in the US are going to balk at what you'd likely pay in NYC. Your best bet would be to ask around in your local area to figure out what 'normal' looks like where you are.

My wife said the same . I'm going to call other audiologists in my area tomorrow and see what's up. The woman I spoke with today sounded knowledgeable, and I like that they offer to redo them for free if not completely satisfied.

I kinda wanted to get them done this afternoon - which is why I asked here.

RE the rest of the thread, I think its awesome how much experience we all have, and its all appreciated. As much as I'd like to I can't answer all the questions though as many have already been answered. I get though that people aren't reading the whole thread . I wouldn't.

In short:

• I have my own mixer.
• I have a wedge in front of me for horn players - who have their own mix.
• I want to get as much noise cancellation as possible.
• I have a LOT of experience gigging with IEMs (have played hundreds of weddings with them).
• My problem is that either the band or the horn section has gotten louder.
• I have limited tweaking time at the shows we do. Sometimes half a song tops, and we take no breaks whatsoever during sets.

 

[BassPilot]

Interesting thread (again).
I have 2 questions for the group:

Custom ear molds
How important is it for an ear mold to provide a straight channel from the output of the IEM directly into the ear canal? If there are steep deflections off of the walls of the channel in the ear mold, is the sound affected? How steep can the deflections be before the sound is considered negatively affected?

IEM electronics
How important is impedance matching between the receiver output and IEM input? What are acceptable tolerances?

 

[two fingers]

My wife said the same . I'm going to call other audiologists in my area tomorrow and see what's up. The woman I spoke with today sounded knowledgeable, and I like that they offer to redo them for free if not completely satisfied.

I kinda wanted to get them done this afternoon - which is why I asked here.

RE the rest of the thread, I think its awesome how much experience we all have, and its all appreciated. As much as I'd like to I can't answer all the questions though as many have already been answered. I get though that people aren't reading the whole thread . I wouldn't.

In short:

• I have my own mixer.
• I have a wedge in front of me for horn players - who have their own mix.
• I want to get as much noise cancellation as possible.
• I have a LOT of experience gigging with IEMs (have played hundreds of weddings with them).
• My problem is that either the band or the horn section has gotten louder.
• I have limited tweaking time at the shows we do. Sometimes half a song tops, and we take no breaks whatsoever during sets.

Is there a monitor guy? Or is there only an FOH sound guy and you are own your own for monitors?

Also, as a stop gap, I would like to see if you are able to get a better mix (as I was) by cranking your mix gain and/or belt pack volume and then lowering all the individual channels. Somehow that cleaned things up nicely for me Saturday night. You wouldn't have to wait until your hakf-a-song sound check to get a good start. Simply whip out your mixer and make approximate adjustments before you start the song. So, jack up the main for your mix by a certain percentage. Then lower each individual channel by the same percentage.

I don't know how or why it worked, but it did. Not enough to change my mind about getting custom molds, but significant for sure.

 

[SLO Surfer]

How much did people here pay for impressions? My band told me $75. I assumed that was for both. Just called audiologist near me and was told $75 each. Waitin on my my mates to get back to me, but thought I'd ask here in the meantime.

I got my impressions done a few miles away from 64Audio headquarters, just outside of Portland, OR. I went to the audiologist guy they recommended most after emailing customer service to get suggestions. Just went back to look at emails/receipts and it was $30 (total, both ears combined). That’s for the best impressions they (64) receive from audiologists from around the country, according to Ricky from 64.

Again, I can’t recommend 64Audio enough for both their product AND customer service quality.

Also, check out the 64Audio website for recommended audiologists to get your IEM impressions. They have suggestions for all around the U.S. Even if you don’t buy 64’s, you might find a better audiologist for IEM impressions.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Is there a monitor guy? Or is there only an FOH sound guy and you are own your own for monitors?

Also, as a stop gap, I would like to see if you are able to get a better mix (as I was) by cranking your mix gain and/or belt pack volume and then lowering all the individual channels. Somehow that cleaned things up nicely for me Saturday night. You wouldn't have to wait until your hakf-a-song sound check to get a good start. Simply whip out your mixer and make approximate adjustments before you start the song. So, jack up the main for your mix by a certain percentage. Then lower each individual channel by the same percentage.

I don't know how or why it worked, but it did. Not enough to change my mind about getting custom molds, but significant for sure.

I actually did exactly what you suggested a couple of weeks ago - by accident- but it didn't change anything for me.

The accident happened by me highlighted only the instruments I keep in my mix, and then lowering the vocals. When you highlight them it pairs them up, so EVERYTHING went down. My not being able to notice that ever before is another part of my problem...

We have 14 channels in our mixer for instruments and vocals, plus a channel for all drums, overheads, a stage mic, DJ mic, and a couple of extras. I can't delete the channels I don't use. If I had only 5 or six channels in my mix, I'd be able to adjust things much more quickly and efficiently.

 

[Slpbass81]

-26 not being enough simply means your band is stupid loud. IEMs aren't magic. They can't fix..... well.... you know.

original post stated he is having to turn his IEM level up to damaging levels due to his band being getting louder. Custom IEM monitors will not fix this problem and only make good heating problems worse. My hearing would be impacted if I used them in a loud setting.

 

[cchorney]

Joe my gigging world is mostly small stages with the drummer's crash right behind one ear and one of the mains on a pole right behind the other ear. I love my IEMs with custom molds. The sound isolation is great. As others have said, with custom molds it doesn't matter if you're moving your heads around, sweating, jumping, or singing - they will remain seated in the perfect position with maximum isolation the entire time and it won't be an annoying feeling.

I do some target shooting for fun and tried a couple times the DIY system of making custom molds and they just don't make as good a seal as the ones the audiologist makes. Spend the money on molds from an audiologist who works with musicians. The 64 Ears has a good guide on what is needed from the molds - maybe check on the company that will be making your IEMs to see if they have their own guide or use this one. And don't forget this is a business expense, so write it off on your taxes!

 

[s0c9]

@Joe Nerve - which mixer are you using?

 

[Joe Nerve]

@Joe Nerve - which mixer are you using?

PreSonus Qmix UC. I have the other app that gives more control (EQ, phase, etc) but its really difficult for me to use that on the fly.

 

[Zbysek]

I NEED YOUR HELP!

I'm currently using Westone UM PRO30s (triple driver) with Comply (and/or Westone) Noise Isolating tips.

I'm OK with the sound, but my band seems to be getting louder and its become a problem. I have to crank the bass in my IEMs, and I'm having a really rough time because I have hearing problems, plus tinnitus that kicks in once I start pushing the volume.

Everyone in my band is telling me I really need to get ear impressions made and take the plunge for customs. I'm going to get impressions made this week, but then I'm lost.

Talked to everybody in my band and hear things like, "These are heavy in the bass," "These have more high end," "You should go for as many drivers as you can afford," "Mine are great and only cost me $600," bla, bla, bla... HELP!!!!!!!

I don't want crazy highs, nor crazy lows. I want a very clear even mix and I'd like to spend somewhere around $1000.

Can people please help me out with recommendations and maybe links where I can research this and hopefully make this my final IEM purchase?

Thanks in advance.

I would recommend you to get tactile transducer like Eich Bassboard or BackBeat.

With these gadgets, I almost don't need the bass in my earphones...and it still feels like playing very loud.

I have very clear mix...even though I am using cheap Chinese buds which I bought for 50 bucks...

Good luck!

 

[Jerry Ziarko]

Somebody else here said something earlier about custom tips for the Westones. If this something im unaware of? Can I get customs made and NOT have to buy new monitors? I'm confused about this.

Westone UM56

 

[s0c9]

PreSonus Qmix UC. I have the other app that gives more control (EQ, phase, etc) but its really difficult for me to use that on the fly.

And, what device are you running it on… phone, tablet, etc?
Asking cuz it helps understand where you’re coming from…and what your challenges are.
I totally get not being able to change it on the fly if using a phone, and you have 20 ch to mix.

 

[Joe Nerve]

And, what device are you running it on… phone, tablet, etc?
Asking cuz it helps understand where you’re coming from…and what your challenges are.
I totally get not being able to change it on the fly if using a phone, and you have 20 ch to mix.

Regular sized iPad.