MTD vs Tobias (original)

[bass12]

The necks on the MTDs are "hand carved" and I'd imagine it was the same for the Tobiases. What that means is that no two necks are going to be exactly the same. I've owned a bunch of MTDs - some had necks that were very thin front-to-back and some had necks that were a bit chunkier. Keep that in mind when ordering your bass and let Mike know what you'd prefer.

 

[cfsporn]

Hmm, wow. A lot of people say the MTDs are better than the "old" Tobias'.

Why wouldn't they be? He has had over 20 years to hone his craft and he is just as involved (if not more so) than he was at Tobias.

 

[NecroticImbecil]

I would hesitate to say that either is "better." Both are great. It seems to me that Mike pretty much perfected the Tobias 34" neck through basses, then moved on to something different with the 35" MTD bolt ons. I'd be curious to see how Tobias-like the rare neck through, 34" MTD is.

Subjectively, the old Tobiases were as close to perfect as possible, great sounding, playing, and looking. Not as polite as the MTDs I've heard, better suited to rock.

 

[cfsporn]

I would hesitate to say that either is "better." Both are great. It seems to me that Mike pretty much perfected the Tobias 34" neck through basses, then moved on to something different with the 35" MTD bolt ons. I'd be curious to see how Tobias-like the rare neck through, 34" MTD is.

Subjectively, the old Tobiases were as close to perfect as possible, great sounding, playing, and looking. Not as polite as the MTDs I've heard, better suited to rock.

Devils advocate here. Since most, if not all, MTDs are made custom, I think tonal differences reflect the demand and not the supply.

 

[iwearpumas]

Maybe one day I will get ownership of a pre gib.

 

[Doug Parent]

Having owned a couple of MTD's and played a lot more, the one wood option that makes a massive difference is a wenge neck. That is the 'original, classic MTD' sort of spec, with an ash or other lightweight body. That will give you the maximum 'scoopy sizzly' Norm Stockton sort of tone... very upper treble, sweet sizzle, relaxed mids, and then a huge, open low end.

That is kind of the 'outlier' for me on MTD basses. The other wood combinations (i.e., ash neck or maple neck, maple board, rosewood board, mahogany body, alder body, etc.) are more 'tweaks' to my ear on a more relaxed, mid present, less sizzly MTD tone.

I LOVE the ash neck, maple board, ash body with a top of your choosing (walnut looks amazing) spec. Plenty of snap, but some real growl and punch also. I had this spec with a Koa top for a while... very big and punchy, and a little less 'extremely modern' as the Wenge/ash spec.

IMO!

That's a great wood combination for a 535 IMHO. I had an Ash/Maple which I still miss to this day.

 

[iwearpumas]

I need to hear some MTD basses. There aren't really any sound clips anywhere.

 

[johnbkim93]

thought this might help

 

[ElMon]

Never had the pleasure of gigging a pre-Gibson Tobias, but wanted to add that if you want some suggestions/feedback on wood combinations I would also turn to Glenn Kawamoto at Austin Bass Traders. If you go to his website you'll see how descriptive and knowledgeable he is on the website alone. I've never spoken with Mike T directly and I'm sure he's of course just as knowledgeable, but Glen has sold and GIGGED a ton of Mike's stuff. Smoking bass player on top of it all.

 

[hands5]

Ive had both. I feel they are really completely different in tone, scale and feel. If i were to order again..It would be a MTD 534

Same here. I've had both and as you said they are completely different instruments from one another. The only thing they had in common was that they both were built by Mike Tobias and that was it, but I can't say that I'd would buy either one of them again.

 

[evilgus]

I've been gigging with a few pre-Gibs, for a while now, but previously used an ash MTD as my main bass. Although it sounded wonderful in the mix, I found it a bit too aggressive, so sold it off and got a Spanish-cedar Roscoe. That sounds tighter and warmer, but I really still miss the MTD. The EQ really was versatile, I should have spent more time with it.

The Tobiases are both walnut bodies, one Classic 5 and one Signature 5. The Classic has a very bass-heavy sound, when flat, due to the early pre-amp, but can be tweaked to sound like an MTD or Alembic. Big, warm lows, crystal highs.

The Signature has an oil finish and sounds like a poplar/wenge MTD. Strong, but tight lows, strong mids, zingy top-end. Can sound like a Warwick or similar dark-wooded bass.

Hope that heLps a little!

EG

 

[MrLenny1]

Can't compare the two but just adding.
I own 2 Gibson era Tobias's. 1994 Basic 5 and 1998 Classic 5.
Neck thru's, 24 fret. The Basic has a solid maple body and more punch (mids)& highs
than the Classic which has way more bottom end. Both are a joy to play.
Hope to try an MTD someday.

 

[evilgus]

Actually, you *can* compare Gibson Tobiases with the earlier ones.

I owned two Gibson Tobiases, before I saved up for my first (MTD and) pre-Gib and they were both fine instruments! One was a '98 Killer B-5, which I had for many years and the other was a '95 Classic 5, which I sold to fund an earlier Classic 5. They both sounded great and played well, it's just that the older ones have a higher level of quality and typically a much warmer/thicker sound. In the case of the Classic, it was a significant upgrade, but I should have found a way to keep the younger one as well, as it had a more modern sound and awesome birds-eye maple neck!

Cheers,

EG

 

[tombowlus]

Hmm, wow. A lot of people say the MTDs are better than the "old" Tobias'.

I would have to agree with that, in the sense that, like many great artists and luthiers, Mike Tobias has continued to evolve and improve. That being said, I do feel that there is some magic to those pre-Gibson (or, more accurately, the Mike Tobias-built) Tobiases. I've owned six of them (and still have three), and they were all great basses in their own right. That being said, I found a noticeable bit of variation among/between similar basses with the early Tobias basses. Case in point, my Basic 5 is far and away the best Tobias I have played, and the other Basic 5 and Signature 5 I had (and have since sold) couldn't touch it. True, there were variations in the tonewoods, but the differences were more noticeable than I would have expected, even factoring them in.

That being said, I have owned I think ten MTDs, and they absolutely demonstrate a lot of variation in tone from bass to bass. However, I strongly feel that in the context of my MTDs, those differences were directly attributed to the different tonewoods, and not "more magic" in one than the other (which is kind of how I feel about my older Tobiases).

I spoke to the tonal differences (in general) between the two in the MTD club thread. Here's a snippet:

Lots of variation in woods, and lots of flexibility with EQ, but in general, I'd say that my Tobiases are a bit more full and meaty out of the gate, with a very solid fundamental, and the MTDs are a bit more clear and cutting, and a tad more "exciting." But once again, you can dial in one to sound a good bit like the other.

That kind of sums it up, but once again, be aware that there are lots of tonal variations within each iteration of Mike's work.

Here are my current pre-Gibson or Burbank-era (after the sale to Gibson, but Mike and crew still building) basses:

And here are my current MTDs:

Link Removed

And:

 

[iwearpumas]

Actually, you *can* compare Gibson Tobiases with the earlier ones.

I owned two Gibson Tobiases, before I saved up for my first (MTD and) pre-Gib and they were both fine instruments! One was a '98 Killer B-5, which I had for many years and the other was a '95 Classic 5, which I sold to fund an earlier Classic 5. They both sounded great and played well, it's just that the older ones have a higher level of quality and typically a much warmer/thicker sound. In the case of the Classic, it was a significant upgrade, but I should have found a way to keep the younger one as well, as it had a more modern sound and awesome birds-eye maple neck!

Cheers,

EG

I'm thinking about upgrading to a birdseye maple neck on my MTD.

 

[tombowlus]

I'm thinking about upgrading to a birdseye maple neck on my MTD.

Mike does have some nice birdseye ...

 

[iwearpumas]

Not FB, I was going for the neck. But he has some amazing woods.

 

[tombowlus]

Not FB, I was going for the neck. But he has some amazing woods.

I was not aware that Mike offered birdseye maple as a neck option. I thought he was concerned about the stability. Could be wrong, though. I have some other basses with birdseye necks, and they have not had any neck issues.

 

[bucephylus]

Regarding Birdseye in necks, my understanding is that huge density variations such as in quilt can be a problem. Tight flaming and Birdseye not so much. I've had both with no issues.

Great and accurate comments from TB & EG. Here are my <2c:

The bolt on format fits Mike's tone wood approach better than neck through. A bolt-on tone is heavily influenced by the neck flexural character but the body comes into play in a predictable way. This is really where Mike should have been to begin with.

Neck through character is sort of 90+% determined by the neck construction. If you look at Mike's neck through work, there was a fair amount of variation in the neck woods. And I think it was never totally obvious what the results would be. Sure, darker wood = darker tone, but the different laminations etc made for a complex mix. Don't get me wrong. I treasure my Signature 5 with walnut neck. It produces the most pure straight to the board bass tone I have ever heard.

So, just to echo, Mike has continued to learn and move forward and is right where he should be. I would hesitate to compare as classes the two periods. You've got to evaluate each individual instrument on its own merits.

Mike is a true artisan and a treasure in the craft. We are lucky to have him.

 

[bass12]

I'm thinking about upgrading to a birdseye maple neck on my MTD.

You mean fretboard, I'm assuming? Weren't you going with a rosewood board? Or were you going maple and now want a birdseye maple board? Anyway, I definitely wouldn't think of maple as an upgrade over rosewood (if that's what you meant).

Edit: I just saw that you're talking about the neck. Mike would know better than I would but, from what I've heard, birdseye is typically not as rigid as plain maple. Having said that, my Rob Allen has a birdseye neck and is very stable so I don't know.