Multi-Scale

[kodiakblair]

How do I look into acquiring one of those?

The announcement was made earlier this year so expect them start of 2022.

Personally, I'd bring back the Fury and the Foundation with those Super Ferrite pickups and the solid and playable neck.

And a T40 reissue, but modernised slightly, eg no ugly PG.

The Fury had a 15 year run, Foundation nearly 20. The T-40 had a 10 year run. With Peavey's factories knocking out 500 units per day it's no stretch of the imagination to say they number upwards of 100k in the wild for each.

Prices range from $200 for Furys to $5 - 600 for T-40's, Foundations sit in the middle. That's actual sold prices not shoot for the sky Reverb asking prices. Fender succeeded with their reissue models because the price of originals was so high.

That's not the case here. Nobody will opt to pay 2-3 times more for a Czech built reissue.

OK there may be 1 or 2 would pay more but that won't cover the production set up costs.

 

[BurningSkies]

I assume you mean outside what they're making today?

No, I don't think there's a market for 50 pound, 65 watt combo amps. But someone is buying a P-style bass extremely regularly, same with Jazz-style. Much more frequently than a MS.

Sure. And someone making something like this, but at a Peavey price-point would fill a big hole in the market.

 

[BurningSkies]

Also, it's time for people to stop considering multi-scale as proprietary Dingwall property. I obviously love them...but for many more reasons than the fanning.

For years I've said that I'd love to see someone do it right and bring it to the production bass priced market. If someone could do it, I'd think Peavey could be that maker. Not afraid of innovation and small enough to not need millions to sink into the machining.

 

[Nuage420]

Sure. And someone making something like this, but at a Peavey price-point would fill a big hole in the market.

View attachment 4321238

Exactly! If the import DWs hit 1700ish or less I'm in (I'm guessing they would be close to the droc in price). If Peavy can come out with something like it for less??? I'm in.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

A totally standard P (or PJ with a reversed split) 4 string that had fan frets (and an E string even just a little longer than 34") would interest me.

I'm convinced by the arguments that you get a more even tone across the strings with the fan frets, and that one solitary advance would have me interested.

I wouldn't want the bass to look futuristic, nor the basic sound to be any different, I just want the sonic improvement of the fanned frets (and a tiny bit more tension in the E string would be great, too )

How many other people there are that feel that way, I dunno.

 

[Nuage420]

A totally standard P (or PJ with a reversed split) 4 string that had fan frets (and an E string even just a little longer than 34") would interest me.

I'm convinced by the arguments that you get a more even tone across the strings with the fan frets, and that one solitary advance would have me interested.

I wouldn't want the bass to look futuristic, nor the basic sound to be any different, I just want the sonic improvement of the fanned frets (and a tiny bit more tension in the E string would be great, too )

How many other people there are that feel that way, I dunno.

A bunch of us in this thread from what I can tell.

 

[A9X]

How many other people there are that feel that way, I dunno.

Me too, providing it's a 6.

 

[J Posega]

The reason you don't see more multiscales besides Dingwall is because every other companies MS basses are awful. Heavy overall or neck heavy, no ergonomic considerations in their design, uninspiring tone. Sheldon put years into his designs. Schecter and ESP designed a fanned fret neck that retrofitted a current model. Then Ibanez did the same with the SR fanned basses. The EHB is probably better, but it's ugly as hell.

Two thoughts.

One, as mentioned, take the time to make the bass look and sound GOOD. That means make sure it has a wider visual appeal than just to the progressive/metal guys, and also a more traditional tone. It'll catch on if the average cover band bassist says "Yeah, I'd play that onstage."

Second, take into consideration your customers' concerns for consumables. That means no odd-sized proprietary pickups (that you can't swap out with the large ocean of aftermarket parts) and preamp, and making sure strings are easily available. And no, even though Dingwalls have been out for a while, their string selection is not easy to find, nor is it comparable to a typical 34 or 35 bass.

Ibanez, Kiesel, et al. use a 33-35" fan which sounds more manageable to the regular player, but also much easier to grab existing strings off the rack.

If you DO decide to go the 34-37 route, consider offering your own string line again, as your players are going to need/want another option aside from the small handful available.

There are probably a lot of reasons, but I'd also guess string availability? A 33-35 fan can use existing strings out there, whereas you run into needing special ones for a 34-36.

Why doesn't GHS offer strings for Dingwall basses? I know Lee Sklar exclusively uses Super Steels, so what about the rest of us?

 

[ga_edwards]

I’m not a fan (pun intended) or 5 and 6 strings and I prefer 4 strings with a Hipshot xtender. In this case, when dropping the E string to D a multi scale would be highly beneficial.

I’d love to see what Peavey can do to bring good quality affordable multi scale basses to the masses.

PS as much as I love the typical Dingwall and flashy stying that see, prevalent with multi scale basses, I’d prefer a classic look that fit with a typical function bar band aesthetic.

 

[PennyroyalWe]

I’d be more interested in a 32” scale bass, than a 35” 5 string. More importantly, bring back the T-40 & Foundation, please!

 

[kodiakblair]

More importantly, bring back the T-40 & Foundation, please!

Why ?

They are always up for grabs on Reverb, eBay and MGR. Not to mention being a common sight on CL.

 

[singlemalt]

I took a leap into a used Dingwall Super PJ 4 around 2009. My Fender Jazz got photographed, packed up, and put up for sale the same afternoon the Dingwall arrived. All the “straight” basses have been sold.

It’s more than the fanned frets. If Sheldon Dingwall and company are doing something, they are going after every last detail. The Super series reimagined the industry standard, most played models in history. Every detail seemed more refined, every bit of extra fat and flat trimmed away. The even tone and tension across the neck is a huge improvement.

Fit and finish is top notch. The paint shop does incredible work.

The longscale models are in a league of their own. The import lines are a spectacular success. I’m super impressed with the quality of my Dbird, the first import I’ve owned.

I’ve owned seven Dingwall basses and still own three, a Super P, and AB-1, and the rare Dbird. All four strings. Multi scale is about addressing the compromises that are inherent in a single length scale. I usually had my five strings set up E-C. It’s not just about a B string.

And for me, it’s been all Dingwall ever since 2009, until a couple years ago, when a minty, turn of the century Cirrus 4 proved irresistible. What a nice surprise. I call it my Mississippi Alembic.

The closest comparison would be the AB -1 and the Cirrus.
The Cirrus feels longer, both overall and reach to the nut. But the E string on the AB is longer. The AB is full pound lighter at 7.5 lb.

The difference in timbre and tension across the neck on the Cirrus is noticeable. I play things differently on the Cirrus. The D and G strings on the AB are much punchier.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the Cirrus. It’s got a sound of its own, and it plays great. As a flagship model should. The Peavey USA basses are an amazing value, and prices on older models are rising as folks figure it out.

So, yeah, multiscale? Absolutely! But the bar has been set pretty high. Headless? I tried to love a Zon Vinnie, but headless never clicked with me. Combine the two, and you are really looking at low numbers of units unless the price is compelling. A multi scale 37”-34” Cirrus? With the bridge pushed all the way out to the end of the body, and a reach reducing strap lock....passive pickups, and active and passive controls.... and under $2000?

In the end, as always, the bean counters will have their way and target price points, market share pie charts, advertising budgets, exchange rates and so many other things will shape the line.

I’ll be tempted to try the Ibanez headless multi 4 once they hit the $700 range on the used market. Shouldn’t be long now. For that, I can overlook some of the misses.

 

[iiipopes]

Fred, re:

Looking for some input -

Getting ready to re-introduce some bass guitars and wondered what y'all prefer. I was thinking for a 5 String a multi-scale bass might be cool, but at the same time I don't think there is a need for it on a 4 string. What would y'all think about a series where the 4 is standard 35" and the 5 is Multi?

Or, what do you think about multi-scale in general?

-Fred

Observations:
1) One of my 4-strings is multiscale to help with a hand injury I suffered years ago. Here is the link to my thread on my bass: A Different Custom P-style Bass I go into excruciating detail about everything that went into the design parameters, which was mainly for comfort, not necessarily the tonal advantages, 33 1/4 to 34 scale on a square nut (the spacers are for nut intonation). Yes, at the time, trying to play while the injuries healed, it was definitely needed.
2) I also posted on page 2 of the thread a YouTube video of how it sounded on national TV & DVD.
3) And I also posted a picture of my Strat-style matching guitar: square nut, 24 5/8 to 24 7/8 scale.
4) Since B strings are comparatively thinner than the math might indicate compared to the rest of the set, I agree that multi-scale benefits both 5-string and 6-string basses.
5) Regarding 35" - I have had to go down from "standard" 34-inch scale to 33-inch scale basses for comfort. OTOH, one of my friends has had to go up from 34-inch scale to 35 inch scale to fit him better. Horses for courses.
6) Most multi-scale instruments fan both ways. As in the pictures of my custom instruments show, I prefer a square nut fanning forward for comfort. Yes, I may sacrifice a little bit of the tonal advantages to a full fan, but it makes the instrument so much easier to play.
7) The original multi-scale instrument, the Renaissance Opharion lute, of which I posted a picture on page 2 of my thread, had, and have on some of the re-creations, a square nut.
8) To do it all over again, I'd do a 5-string 33 to 34 with a square nut, individual bridges, and good active soapbars. I do like the clarity that the multi-scale and individual bridges bring to the tone of a bass.
These are my thoughts on the matter. YMMV.

 

[Nuage420]

I took a leap into a used Dingwall Super PJ 4 around 2009. My Fender Jazz got photographed, packed up, and put up for sale the same afternoon the Dingwall arrived. All the “straight” basses have been sold.

It’s more than the fanned frets. If Sheldon Dingwall and company are doing something, they are going after every last detail. The Super series reimagined the industry standard, most played models in history. Every detail seemed more refined, every bit of extra fat and flat trimmed away. The even tone and tension across the neck is a huge improvement.

Fit and finish is top notch. The paint shop does incredible work.

The longscale models are in a league of their own. The import lines are a spectacular success. I’m super impressed with the quality of my Dbird, the first import I’ve owned.

I’ve owned seven Dingwall basses and still own three, a Super P, and AB-1, and the rare Dbird. All four strings. Multi scale is about addressing the compromises that are inherent in a single length scale. I usually had my five strings set up E-C. It’s not just about a B string.

And for me, it’s been all Dingwall ever since 2009, until a couple years ago, when a minty, turn of the century Cirrus 4 proved irresistible. What a nice surprise. I call it my Mississippi Alembic.

The closest comparison would be the AB -1 and the Cirrus.
The Cirrus feels longer, both overall and reach to the nut. But the E string on the AB is longer. The AB is full pound lighter at 7.5 lb.

The difference in timbre and tension across the neck on the Cirrus is noticeable. I play things differently on the Cirrus. The D and G strings on the AB are much punchier.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the Cirrus. It’s got a sound of its own, and it plays great. As a flagship model should. The Peavey USA basses are an amazing value, and prices on older models are rising as folks figure it out.

So, yeah, multiscale? Absolutely! But the bar has been set pretty high. Headless? I tried to love a Zon Vinnie, but headless never clicked with me. Combine the two, and you are really looking at low numbers of units unless the price is compelling. A multi scale 37”-34” Cirrus? With the bridge pushed all the way out to the end of the body, and a reach reducing strap lock....passive pickups, and active and passive controls.... and under $2000?

In the end, as always, the bean counters will have their way and target price points, market share pie charts, advertising budgets, exchange rates and so many other things will shape the line.

I’ll be tempted to try the Ibanez headless multi 4 once they hit the $700 range on the used market. Shouldn’t be long now. For that, I can overlook some of the misses.

I've seen then around 800-900 already on the 1005s. Only a handful so far, but your wait shouldn't be long.

 

[kodiakblair]

The Peavey USA basses are an amazing value, and prices on older models are rising as folks figure it out.

A situation mostly confined to the USA and one which is of little use to Peavey as a company.

Back in 1983 Hartley ,quite correctly, stated "the USA has less than 5% of the world's population, the trick is selling to the other 95%."

Domestic sales only get you so far .

 

[Obese Chess]

Why go with something with a narrow appeal up front? There's only so big of a market for multiscale basses, and targeting that segment seems like it would be setting Peavey up for some disappointing sales numbers. That's not going to rebuild the Peavey reputation (sorry, but there's some dirt on the name these days), going back to basics will.

What is Peavey known for in the bass community? Making REALLY solid, REALLY playable, REALLY reliable gear. Look at the threads here about the different bass models - Foundations, Furys, Cirrus's, T20/40/45s - and the common theme is how great the necks are - stable, easy to play. And the second thing is how great those Super Ferrite pickups are - THAT's the "special sauce" in the reintroduction of Peavey basses (yeah, the Milestone...). Not something that 99 out of 100 potential customers is going to pass by when it comes time to actually buy something.

Personally, I'd bring back the Fury and the Foundation with those Super Ferrite pickups and the solid and playable neck. That will get people's attention, and they will buy them, not just noodle on them at Guitar Center. Have something more deluxe in the lineup as well (a revamp of the T-40, maybe??).

The idea would be to build the lineup up from the Milestone, not have something so different that we, the consumers, are wondering what Peavey stands for now.

I think this is the way to go - with the caveat of course that there's no reason one has to preclude the other. Hell, a lightweight MS T-series type bass would check a bunch of boxes for me. But vintage and vintage-style gear is IN right now and given Peavey's history it would be leaving money on the table not to take advantage of that.

 

[who]

I’d be more interested in a 32” scale bass, than a 35” 5 string.

Same here. A 32" or 33" scale Cirrus 5 would be great.

 

[BtaylorTheRogue]

Also, it's time for people to stop considering multi-scale as proprietary Dingwall property.

I wonder if torzal twist is proprietary. It'd be cool to see that mass produced but no idea how it would affect cost to manufacture

 

[A9X]

I wonder if torzal twist is proprietary. It'd be cool to see that mass produced but no idea how it would affect cost to manufacture

I would be surprised if it cost much more than a regular neck, if made on a CNC. Assuming of course I'm not missing some aspect of construction.

 

[Lackey]

Eh I don't see the point so much personally - I'm pretty set on 34" or less for a Low E string. I have balanced tension strings on my old BB and it is incredibly nice to play, and sounds nicely balanced as well, the E is a .107 I believe and is very taut and clean.