Music Man SUB USA

[Lo-E]

Now, the price of entry level instruments from China and Indonesia have risen from the $200 range to the $400 and even $1,000 range (!).

This is where the real problem lies, IMO. While it’s true that the fit and finish are better than ever on instruments of this type, they are also cheaper than ever to produce yet the prices have gotten disproportionately high.

I don’t think the prices of US made instruments are really all that outrageous, personally. Materials, real estate, insurance and - especially - labor are expensive in this country. It’s unreasonable to expect manufacturers not to want to make a profit (so that they can continue to produce instruments and employ craftspeople) and that’s simply more expensive today. If and when they price themselves above what people are willing to pay, that’s when the market will correct itself.

As far as used prices go, they will always be driven by a combination of the prices of comparable new items, supply and demand.

 

[58kites]

Ok I guess Ill word it as its not really a selling point that makes that horrible finish a positive for most bassist.

Horrible finish is in the eye of the beholder. I think lots of basses that some folks like look bad.
I don't like glossy black because it always looks dirty/greasy, I don't like most painted red basses especially CAR, I hate pink basses or magenta or anything in the realm of pink, I don't like lavender and many shades of purple paint finishes. There are lots of sparkle finishes that I don't like including some very expensive Musicman basses.
I like lots of clear natural finishes and translucent tinted finishes, I like white paint and faded soft white basses, I like lots of blue basses, etc.
My USA SUB has a very understated black finish with a thick single ply pickguard that is not matte or glossy, it sits perfectly in the middle between matte and glossy and is perfect for what I want. MusicMan may have been working to save money producing that bass but it turned out perfect.....for me.

 

[tmvt]

Horrible finish is in the eye of the beholder. I think lots of basses that some folks like look bad.
I don't like glossy black because it always looks dirty/greasy, I don't like most painted red basses especially CAR, I hate pink basses or magenta or anything in the realm of pink, I don't like lavender and many shades of purple paint finishes. There are lots of sparkle finishes that I don't like including some very expensive Musicman basses.
I like lots of clear natural finishes and translucent tinted finishes, I like white paint and faded soft white basses, I like lots of blue basses, etc.
My USA SUB has a very understated black finish with a thick single ply pickguard that is not matte or glossy, it sits perfectly in the middle between matte and glossy and is perfect for what I want. MusicMan may have been working to save money producing that bass but it turned out perfect.....for me.

Well Im glad for you.

 

[58kites]

Well Im glad for you.

Yeah, me too.

 

[mcnach]

Wow, the old USA SUBs are fetching $1K now? I bought mine (active version) gently used about 10 years ago for under half that. Liked it so much I had it re-finished by Marty Bell for around $300 to a beautiful sparkle copper. I don’t think I’d pay a grand for one today; I would just spring the extra for a modern USA ‘Ray.

Yeah, they've gone up in price faster than my salary, that's for sure

I think it was around 2010 when I got my SUB5 (USA) for £350, in great condition, plus a Basslines SMB5-A that the previous owner bought for it (plus the original). In 2010 I got my 2002 Stingray natural/maple for £700 in immaculate condition with the original hard case... and in those days I was overpaying as they typically went for around £600, but this one was a great one.

Not that long ago a USA Stingray 5 would cost around £1300-1400 here. I'm talking around 2016, before the Special series arrived. I've just paid nearly as much for a SBMM Stingray 5 when they were about £800 those days.

And the USA SUBs? Sold my last 4 string one for £400 a couple of years ago.

 

[mcnach]

Back in 2003/2004 or so, EB produced a budget model in the USA called the SUB4. MSRP just over a grand. Street price was about 700. They were running about 300-400 on the used market for years, but have really jumped (like everything else) in the last five years or so.

ETA: This is a pretty good overview

Yes, they were made between 2003-2006. Slab body, thick textured finish and the neck was painted black on the back and also the headstock. Same preamp/pickups as the standard USA models.
Can't confuse them with the SBMM version.

 

[DWBass]

For $1k, you could find a nice used 'Ray or just save up some more and get a nice new one. The SUB's were nice but were heavy with slab bodies. No arm cutout. Flat finish and that steel PG. Some were active and some were passive. I wouldn't touch a passive unless I planned to make it active. Gotta have that 'Ray sound.

 

[JazznFunk]

For $1k, you could find a nice used 'Ray or just save up some more and get a nice new one. The SUB's were nice but were heavy with slab bodies. No arm cutout. Flat finish and that steel PG. Some were active and some were passive. I wouldn't touch a passive unless I planned to make it active. Gotta have that 'Ray sound.

Right now on Reverb there's a USA SUB mis-represented as a 'StingRay' going for $750. The cheapest EBMM 'Ray on there is $1,100 in 'good' condition. All others are around $1,300-1,500 or higher. So no... a 'nice used 'Ray' is not going to be $1k, especially after any potentially applicable taxes or shipping.... unless you manage to score a 'unicorn' local deal.

Back to the SUBs tho.... They weren't all heavy. Mine ranged from 8-10lbs. I owned three - one fretted, 2 fretless. As someone who PLAYED a passive version (one of my fretless SUBs was passive), it sounded almost exactly like the active one for the most part. It was most definitely that 'Ray sound. You wouldn't scoff at it if you heard one by any means. Bass and treble boost both were very powerful. I believe that electronics package was a very, very unique one cooked up at EBMM for those basses. I'm sure their boards and community could shed more light on it. I haven't been on those boards in over a decade.

 

[58kites]

The cheapest EBMM 'Ray on there is $1,100 in 'good' condition. All others are around $1,300-1,500 or higher.
So no... a 'nice used 'Ray' is not going to be $1k, especially after any potentially applicable taxes or shipping.... unless you manage to score a 'unicorn' local deal.

I'm glad somebody else checked to see how much good used StingRays are going for now, they are no longer regularly $1000.
This last year or two has seen prices going up for lots of things and I don't think they are going back down.
EBMM new basses went way up a couple years ago and it did effect the used market.

My USA SUB weighs 8 1/2 pounds.

 

[DWBass]

Right now on Reverb there's a USA SUB mis-represented as a 'StingRay' going for $750. The cheapest EBMM 'Ray on there is $1,100 in 'good' condition. All others are around $1,300-1,500 or higher. So no... a 'nice used 'Ray' is not going to be $1k, especially after any potentially applicable taxes or shipping.... unless you manage to score a 'unicorn' local deal.

I'm looking at one, right now, on a Facebook Bass Gear for Sale group for $995 SHIPPED w/EB HSC. They're out there if you look.

 

[JazznFunk]

I'm looking at one, right now, on a Facebook Bass Gear for Sale group for $995 SHIPPED w/EB HSC. They're out there if you look.

As I stated... a 'unicorn' deal.... not the norm though.

 

[tmvt]

Right now on Reverb there's a USA SUB mis-represented as a 'StingRay' going for $750. The cheapest EBMM 'Ray on there is $1,100 in 'good' condition. All others are around $1,300-1,500 or higher. So no... a 'nice used 'Ray' is not going to be $1k, especially after any potentially applicable taxes or shipping.... unless you manage to score a 'unicorn' local deal.

Back to the SUBs tho.... They weren't all heavy. Mine ranged from 8-10lbs. I owned three - one fretted, 2 fretless. As someone who PLAYED a passive version (one of my fretless SUBs was passive), it sounded almost exactly like the active one for the most part. It was most definitely that 'Ray sound. You wouldn't scoff at it if you heard one by any means. Bass and treble boost both were very powerful. I believe that electronics package was a very, very unique one cooked up at EBMM for those basses. I'm sure their boards and community could shed more light on it. I haven't been on those boards in over a decade.

They are still out there even with the price jump in the last few years, someone in this thread even jumped in with one for 900 shipped and most subs have wear even with the finish they have so they aren't necessarily any better then a good condition Stingray. This idea of them only doing for what you call a unicorn deal meaning a rare occurrence is not true. You have to put a little more work in then just looking at the main platforms and you can score one.

Also just because its listed at a price doesn't mean that's what it will sell for. You negotiate and you can get one still for around what the OP was going to spend even listed at $1300. I had one pop up local in great condition less then 6 months ago for 1k and mostly likely meeting locally would I have been able to talk him down even a little more. You just need to go out and hunt for them.

And reverbs not a good source for pricing most pieces are inflated.

 

[tmvt]

I'm glad somebody else checked to see how much good used StingRays are going for now, they are no longer regularly $1000.
This last year or two has seen prices going up for lots of things and I don't think they are going back down.
EBMM new basses went way up a couple years ago and it did effect the used market.

My USA SUB weighs 8 1/2 pounds.

Yes peoples asking have gone up but that doesn't mean that's what they sell for. People assume that when they see a instrument that has sold that the posted price is what it went for. When actually people work out deals in PMs and they don't publicly show what the final price was that it went for. So 1k Stingrays in good or above condition still exist.

 

[tmvt]

I'm looking at one, right now, on a Facebook Bass Gear for Sale group for $995 SHIPPED w/EB HSC. They're out there if you look.

 

[tmvt]

As I stated... a 'unicorn' deal.... not the norm though.

maybe for you these deals seem like "unicorns". How often and were are you actually looking?

 

[tmvt]

For $1k, you could find a nice used 'Ray or just save up some more and get a nice new one. The SUB's were nice but were heavy with slab bodies. No arm cutout. Flat finish and that steel PG. Some were active and some were passive. I wouldn't touch a passive unless I planned to make it active. Gotta have that 'Ray sound.

 

[58kites]

Sounds a lot like an advertisement for your services.

 

[tmvt]

Sounds a lot like an advertisement for your services.

Nope. Just letting the OP know despite what some people are telling him they are out there. I even outlined how to go about it and scoop one. So for someone offering a service that wouldn't be very helpful acquiring a client.

 

[58kites]

A very good barometer for prices is Guitar Center used and the numbers I listed several pages back indicate a pretty good jump.
Prices for used basses (and lots of other things) have gone up quite a bit since covid started, and especially after so many people bought up all the used instruments, mountain bikes, kayaks, pickup trucks, etc, etc.
There will always be deals to be had here and there on anything on the used market, but it is less common now (last couple years) because of supply chain issues for new stuff that made lots of used items more valuable.
Deny it all you want but you are not convincing people here who know better.

 

[tmvt]

A very good barometer for prices is Guitar Center used and the numbers I listed several pages back indicate a pretty good jump.
Prices for used basses (and lots of other things) have gone up quite a bit since covid started, and especially after so many people bought up all the used instruments, mountain bikes, kayaks, pickup trucks, etc, etc.
There will always be deals to be had here and there on anything on the used market, but it is less common now (last couple years) because of supply chain issues for new stuff that made lots of used items more valuable.
Deny it all you want but you are not convincing people here who know better.

Sorry its just wrong. If you just pay asking then these deals are not every corner you turn, but still happens as I mentioned I had one local pop up not long ago and 2 on here within the price range. You have to talk to people and work a deal and its very possible and not rare to the point of being a unicorn deal. Im sorry in your reality that they cost a good amount more I guess I cant help you. Have a good day sir.