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Musicman Sabre Club

#561
Sid Fang said:
I didn't go looking for a pre-EB Sabre. I was just looking for a used fretless, 30 years ago, and came across mine. I've never done an A/B with a later Sabre, but from what I've read, EB initially changed nothing but the headstock logo.
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They changed quite a bit, but I don't know that any of it was a lessening in quality as they were trying to improve the design, not save money. They went to a 6 bolt neck, which is theoretically better, although I've seen people saying the 3 bold design was superior. The three 6 bolt basses I've owned have been extremely stable. They also changed the electronics to the 3 band design, which I know a lot of people, including me, don't like as much. They stopped making string through body bridges and moved the truss rod adjustment to the heel. Their truss wheel design at the heel is brilliant. Not stringing through the body changes the tone a bit, as the body doesn't resonate as much. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.
 
#562
AphekGreg said:
They changed quite a bit, but I don't know that any of it was a lessening in quality as they were trying to improve the design, not save money. They went to a 6 bolt neck, which is theoretically better, although I've seen people saying the 3 bold design was superior. The three 6 bolt basses I've owned have been extremely stable. They also changed the electronics to the 3 band design, which I know a lot of people, including me, don't like as much. They stopped making string through body bridges and moved the truss rod adjustment to the heel. Their truss wheel design at the heel is brilliant. Not stringing through the body changes the tone a bit, as the body doesn't resonate as much. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.
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The pickups and electronics must surely be the biggest difference. They went from an 8-pole neck pickup to a 16-pole for one thing, which is apparently the reasons that the pole pieces are covered on the Classic Sabres. They also did away with the three switches, replacing them with a single 5-way switch. The Classic Sabres still use a 2-band preamp, though - in fact it's the same preamp used in the 2-band Stingray, but wired for 2 pickups instead of one. I can't speak to what the sonic differences might be, as I haven't played any of the old ones. But the Sabres are of the same high quality as other Musicman basses, in other words superb. It's the best bass I own, hands down.
 
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#563
+1 for the above comments regarding the truss rod wheel is the best thing since sliced bread, and EBMM quality is second to none. IMO, the only other basses that compare in overall build quality where my formerly-owned Modulus Quantums.

I really like the Sabre body style, just too bad EBMM deemed it unsuccesful for whatever reason(s) and discontinued them (for the third time). I'd really like to try out one of those Alusonic basses that are mirror copies of the Sabre, offered in both 4 and 5 string configs and different PU options.
 
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#566
mikeswals said:
The pickups and 5-way switch happened during the preEB years; 1981. And these also switched to 4-bolts necks also by '81.
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The Sabre was introduced in '78 or '79 wasn't it? Leo Fender and George Fullerton had had enough of the MM guys by '79 and started setting up G&L. So the original model they designed with the toggle switches, was only around for 2-3 years.

I guess we could argue that the only true Precision Bass, is the pre '57 version with the Tele style headstock and single coil pickup.
 
#570
raal said:
back in 2009 or so I took my '79 stingray to a guitar center where they had a couple freshly arrived 09 stingray classics.
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OK. So direct comparison of what is basically a reissue of your bass. So now I wonder what it is that made yours/the early ones better?

From what I've read the body of yours and possibly the neck would have been built by Grover Jackson, as Leo Fender and George Fullerton weren't getting on at all with the MM guys by '79, so there's no Leo Fender mojo involved. :smug:

My first guess is the pickups were wound differently. Apparently Leo and George both felt that hand guided pickup winding sounded better than machine automated ones; which is what I think Ernie Ball do now. Having started producing pickups myself, I agree that the human guided versions sound better.
 
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#571
this is all to take with a grain of salt as it's been just my experience. As much as i have a hard time believing the electronics made all the difference between the stingrays, the high boost in pre '81 sabre just works wonders in adding that top end sparkle and could possibly be an additional differentiating factor.

i'd love to know what happens to that factory left over neck and body from the 80's if assembled with reissue electronics but if i had to take a guess i'd say the wood has a lot to do with the tonal differences.
 
#572
raal said:
back in 2009 or so I took my '79 stingray to a guitar center where they had a couple freshly arrived 09 stingray classics.
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OK. So direct comparison of what is basically a reissue of your bass. So now I wonder what it is that made yours better?
raal said:
this is all to take with a grain of salt as it's been just my experience. As much as i have a hard time believing the electronics made all the difference between the stingrays, the high boost in pre '81 sabre just works wonders in adding that top end sparkle and could possibly be an additional differentiating factor.

i'd love to know what happens to that factory left over neck and body from the 80's if assembled with reissue electronics but if i had to take a guess i'd say the wood has a lot to do with the tonal differences.
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I did read somewhere that the original Sabre had a slightly different eq and they changed it to be the same as the Stingray after the first few years. George Fullerton said both he and Leo Fender believed the Sabre to be an improvement on the Stingray and that they carried on where they left off with G&L. Obviously, not everybody agrees with them or we'd all be playing G&L now.

There are so many factors aren't there. You can play two instruments that are supposed to be the same and one will be good, while the other will be superb. Other than the electronics, the main thing they changed that would affect the tone, is the bridge, which they changed to be the same as the Stingray after a few years as well. Then later lost the string through design and became top load only.
 
#573
AphekGreg said:
.......Other than the electronics, the main thing they changed that would affect the tone, is the bridge, which they changed to be the same as the Stingray after a few years as well. Then later lost the string through design and became top load only.
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You've made a couple references about Sabre going away from a string-thru bridge. Sabre never had a string-thru bridge. Only Stingray had a string-thru bridge. And the G&L bridge is much closer to the Sabre bridge than to the Stingray bridge. EBMM Sabres did get a bridge similar to the Stingray bridge, but never with string-thru.
 
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#574
malthumb said:
You've made a couple references about Sabre going away from a string-thru bridge. Sabre never had a string-thru bridge. Only Stingray had a string-thru bridge. And the G&L bridge is much closer to the Sabre bridge than to the Stingray bridge. EBMM Sabres did get a bridge similar to the Stingray bridge, but never with string-thru.
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OK. My mistake. I was sure I'd seen string through Sabres, but you are of course correct. Just checked and they are all top loading.
 
#575
malthumb said:
You've made a couple references about Sabre going away from a string-thru bridge. Sabre never had a string-thru bridge. Only Stingray had a string-thru bridge. And the G&L bridge is much closer to the Sabre bridge than to the Stingray bridge. EBMM Sabres did get a bridge similar to the Stingray bridge, but never with string-thru.
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This one that's currently on eBay may be what confused me. Reading the description, they say the bridge and electronics are from '78. The electronics definitely aren't, but the bridge might be. Can't read the serial number.
s-l1600.jpg


1986 Ernie Ball Music Man Sabre Bass | eBay
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#576
From '82 to '85 I had a Sabre bass that I had bought well-used for $250. It was sunburst/maple. I wish I had never sold that bass; and it's because of that bass that I now own the black Sabre in my avatar.

But... One of the things that bothered me about my old sunburst Sabre was the through-body stringing! Yup. It *looked* all original to me (at the time; I was a college student and "vintage" basses/originality meant nothing to me). In retrospect, maybe it was modified with a Stingray bridge and ferrules. I've never seen another string-through Sabre since then, until the eBay auction posted above.

Given the fact that my Sabre was "old" when I bought it in '82, I suppose there's some chance it might have been a prototype. Which would make it all the more regrettable that I sold it for the same price I paid for it.

If anybody finds an early sunburst Sabre with through-body stringing, please let me know, as I'd love to see that bass again. ;) Wish I had taken pics of it. Back then it had no value as a "vintage" bass.
 
#577
AphekGreg said:
This one that's currently on eBay may be what confused me. Reading the description, they say the bridge and electronics are from '78. The electronics definitely aren't, but the bridge might be. Can't read the serial number.

1986 Ernie Ball Music Man Sabre Bass | eBay
img]
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Yeah. I never saw a Sabre with string through body bridge and bushings.
Looks like an early EB Sabre with a pre ray bridge (B01 instead of C00), hipshot tuners and an one piece ash body.
 

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