My Day at D. Lakin basses

[Mike Arnopol]

I've seen some and didn't think that they were as good as the Korean made. Phil at Bass Gear found a lot to criticize.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Why are people complaining about the fact that D. Lakin basses are not made in U.S.? I don't hear everyone spouting off about Ibanez. And some of their imports are over $2000!!!!

 

[awilkie84]

Because if you play a Lakland, and probably D. Lakin, you may prefer it over any Fender.

It's not about "similar specs," it's about how the bass feels in your hands, and a Lakland Skyline feels much better to me than even the most expensive Fender.

But we're not talking Laklands. They're a completely different breed.

 

[WoodyG3]

But the Skylines are now made in Indonesia. I don't think that the quality is nearly as good as currently made Korean.

Well, then I guess US made basses must not be made all that well, then, because my Indonesian Skyline is made as well as any of the US Fenders I've played.

Really, people, you need to stop looking at country of manufacture as an assurance of a certain quality level.

All IMO and YMMV and all the other usual disclaimers.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

But we're not talking Laklands. They're a completely different breed.

Lakland Skylines are a completely different breed from D.Lakin Basses? Really??????

 

[Mike Arnopol]

You know---- I think that you're absolutely right. Manufacturing really has become a world thing and we should judge on the merits of the instruments.

 

[awilkie84]

Lakland Skylines are a completely different breed from D.Lakin Basses? Really??????

While both bear his name, they're not the same design or company or manufacturer.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Well obviously, yes. I thought you meant they had nothing in common. Which of course they do because we're talking P and J -style instruments.

Usually when soneone says 'different breed' it's like a bulldog vs. a poodle.

 

[lowendmafia]

Unless things have changed, Valenti builds using Warmoth parts.

I know this is about 9 pages late, but Nino does not get his bodies and necks from USACG. He only got them from there for some of the very early ones. I have an early Valenti, and two new ones (one of the last 10) and they are wildly different. My main basses at current are my US Lakland JO custom / chisonics and my Valenti PJ. Both are different animals, and both are exceptionally high quality. If the Lakins are even half as good as those basses I might be in for $1200 or whatever. Plus, any color? That is amazing.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

Hoping if I play in Chicago again I'll swing by Lakin's (again, did once already). Got my eye on the P -style!

 

[pudgychef]

That's my issue with it, too. It's a passive P & J, made in a mass-produced low-cost factory & marketed at new domestic prices.

At least something like a Dingwall Combustion has the uniqueness of the fanned fret design to justify its $1250 CAD street price for an import bass.
If I wanted a P or J for $1250, I'd buy a Fender American Special. If I wanted to spend less but still get a good quality import bass, I'd buy a Fender MIM Classic Series Jazz or Precision (or a Japanese Fender Jaguar Deluxe).

Iirc that Dingwall is made.in China no? HUGE difference.

Having lived and worked in Korea for years...and now living in China I can assure you they are decades apart in development, cost of living and working wages. China has made huge strides..and the average worker here (despite an 'on paper' wage that would seem low to the average Westerner) do quite well and live very good lives (imho much better than a min wage job back home in Canada)
That being said Korea is far closer to Japan or the West in terms of cost of living etc...it never stops surprising me that so many folks on this forum still think Korea is a developing or 2nd world country. Go to Seoul....makes most NA cities pale in comparison. World class healthcare, major world economic player, very powerful unions ....simply a very wealthy country and by no means a 'cheap' place to build things..why do you think CorTek and Lakland, G & L etc all moved? Cost of labour...

While the cost of labour in US is still higher, Korea would be far closer to US than China or Indonesia

 

[awilkie84]

Iirc that Dingwall is made.in China no? HUGE difference.

Having lived and worked in Korea for years...and now living in China I can assure you they are decades apart in development, cost of living and working wages. China has made huge strides..and the average worker here (despite an 'on paper' wage that would seem low to the average Westerner) do quite well and live very good lives (imho much better than a min wage job back home in Canada)
That being said Korea is far closer to Japan or the West in terms of cost of living etc...it never stops surprising me that so many folks on this forum still think Korea is a developing or 2nd world country. Go to Seoul....makes most NA cities pale in comparison. World class healthcare, major world economic player, very powerful unions ....simply a very wealthy country and by no means a 'cheap' place to build things..why do you think CorTek and Lakland, G & L etc all moved? Cost of labour...

While the cost of labour in US is still higher, Korea would be far closer to US than China or Indonesia

The social issues of the country are not in question here, only the quality of the product...and a Dingwall Combustion is VERY deserving of that $1200+ price tag.

 

[pudgychef]

I think Lakin has made a not new but good market approach. MIA production instruments are more likely to be built by an underpayed employee of any nationality, not only by a qualifyed american born employee as many believe, although I don't know how much a difference would it make. If you watch any major factory tour you'll see there's not much to be made by a single employee, there's a well machined production chain so each construction step is repeated over and over to achieve perfection by a medium-skilled worker. That way you don't need a college degree luthier for each simple task, as making a hundred belly contours per day. These low complexity task construction methods allow for just a few well qualified overseas employees to submit a whole lot of quality production using cheap indigenous labor. Not to mention that wood prices in Korea are likely to be a lot cheaper than in the US.
There's a lot of modern features that are usually custom requested by working musicians are already stock on these classic looking instruments. Of course, G&L and Carvin are offering great american custom products in the price range. In the end, what do you expect from a MIA instrument? Nice materials, great finish, attention to detail, good QC, overall good construction and sound. If these Lakin basses deliver, well there's not much to argue on how much of it was made here or there. The only arguable fact is that these overseas production methods are detrimental to american workers.
IMHO YMMV and stuff.

Wood is cheaper in Korea? Alder and Ash...the majority of which is imported? I don't think so. China and Korea are the top importers of Canadian lumber and wood...doubt they get it cheaper than US pays for domestic or Canadian imported wood...

 

[pudgychef]

Dan did not share any financials with me (nor would I expect him too)...However, I think that when a person like Ed (who plays more basses than ANY of us will dream of ever playing) decides to put any amount of his hard earned money down on a bass it says something about the quality of the basses.

I just can't fathom that Ed pays anywhere near retail...in particular from a start-up..heck his review will sell a dozen alone.

Doesn't negate the basses being good by any means...

 

[pudgychef]

Actually, Dan is an American entrepreneur that started a company with the objective of produce and sell good quality basses, he researched the market and decided that the best thing for his company was to produce his product in Korea, at the same time, he decided to sacrifice profit by requesting an excellent quality finished product to his manufacturing company, he is also using high quality components. At the end of the day, he is offering a product that have the same quality than many other m basses made in the US within the same range price.
The problem than Dan is facing here is the perception of some TB members that are convinced that any bass made in a developing country cannot be made with great quality, therefore, they must to be cheap.
I hope Dan’s new company can succeed and grow to the point that he can hired more American workers, maybe then some people will be happy.

And he is facing the misconception that Korea is a developing country...top 15 economy in the world...real estate prices in Seoul dwarf Toronto and I am sure many a US city...

 

[pudgychef]

I haven't read the thread---just snippets---and I'm not a Jazz or P guy either. Haven't played Dan's basses either. We ran into each other in the store and he was telling me about the basses.

In talking to other uber high end custom bass makers, it seems that the paradigm that we associate with Korean made stuff might need some rethinking. One guy that I won't mention used all of the most expensive, high end pickups out there in his basses. He heard about a great Korean pickup manufacturer out there gave them specs and the pickups they made were much better in sound and quality than the uber expensive US and European pickups. And for a lot less money. I think that Korea is where Japan was in the 70's. It was viewed as "cheap" but evolved into the highest quality production in the world.

I'll make it down to Dan's to try them. I remember when Dan called me to come over when the first Skyline prototype arrived. He opened the door and was shaking his head. I said "that bad?" and he said "no, that good".

And I think that production in Korea has improved a lot since then.

Turning into a rant..sorry...but Korea is Japan in the 70s?? Come on...Maybe 99-2004? And rapidly closing the gap.....has anyone else been there? You must have toured Asia at.some point (heck I have and am not in the same class of player)

 

[pudgychef]

But the Skylines are now made in Indonesia. I don't think that the quality is nearly as good as currently made Korean.

The wages certainly aren't. Nor.does labour (labor) have nearly the voice or power

 

[pudgychef]

While both bear his name, they're not the same design or company or manufacturer.

Cortek vs not Cortek
Maybe the folks who do the high end Dames? Look similar and even circa 2008 the Dame custom basses were awfully nice

 

[nostatic]

I believe Mike is talking about western/consumer perception rather than on-the-ground reality.

Globalization has changed the whole "country of origin" into an often moot point. That said, I still would rather save my pennies and give them to a person or persons who live in my country, pay my taxes, etc, to build me a bass. Luckily I can afford to do that - in part because of the opportunities in my country afforded to me by those who came before me. I don't begrudge anyone in any country their living (and I've been to China multiple times, my wife was born in Hong Kong and was at Tiananmen when the shooting started - but that's a whole 'nother story). But every time you spend your hard-earned money you have choices and those choices have 2nd and 3rd order effects. Some you can control, others less so. But that doesn't mean you should ignore them or just throw up your hand and focus on "price." The cost of goods is deeper than that...

 

[pudgychef]

The social issues of the country are not in question here, only the quality of the product...and a Dingwall Combustion is VERY deserving of that $1200+ price tag.

Could very well be..my point is that Dingwall cost significantly less to produce based on cost of labour.

My main point was that Korea is not a cheap place to build as the post I quoted suggested