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Double Bass My DB project

#61
rgarcia26 said:
That’s not a bad idea, I see how I can quickly get in trouble trying to glue the whole top at the same time and then clamping it, now by clamping four a the time u get more time and the top its in the right position for sure, but let me ask you by gluing in sections I would be worry about a no glue gap in between sections and it may get harder towards the end right? Not big deal I still need to study how to repair the top 100%, repair the bass inside and glue the back after that the glue up for the top… I am getting my book today… but I will be out of town for the holydays 
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The way I did it, I sized the perimeter of the top first (as well as the top of the ribs, especially the open grain of the 6 blocks), using weaker glue mix. Then I dry-clamped the entire top, as Chet described. Then I used a hot palette knife and a weak glue solution to glue a small section at a time (3-4 clamps), overlapping a bit. For the top, you want weaker glue anyway.

George
 
#62
It occurs to me, I forgot to say that Jim Ham glues the whole thing, lets it dry completely, and then clamps it up, exactly the way he wants it, and finally runs a steamer around the edge to re-constitute the glue. I am pretty sure that is only for new-making, though, as it seems to me you would damage varnish that way.
 
#63
1st Bass said:
It occurs to me, I forgot to say that Jim Ham glues the whole thing, lets it dry completely, and then clamps it up, exactly the way he wants it, and finally runs a steamer around the edge to re-constitute the glue. I am pretty sure that is only for new-making, though, as it seems to me you would damage varnish that way.
Click to expand...

I read an interview/profile on Jim Ham in a recent GAL issue, and it shows him using that steamer. It is a pretty narrowly directed steam, so maybe it could be used even on varnished instruments with enough care.

I got the idea for my method from a cello maker, whose name I forgot.

George
 
#64
George700DL said:
The way I did it, I sized the perimeter of the top first (as well as the top of the ribs, especially the open grain of the 6 blocks), using weaker glue mix. Then I dry-clamped the entire top, as Chet described. Then I used a hot palette knife and a weak glue solution to glue a small section at a time (3-4 clamps), overlapping a bit. For the top, you want weaker glue anyway.

George
Click to expand...

My father-in-law is a German-trained cabinetmaker who's probably forgotten more than I will ever know. He recently described to me how they'd glue up veneered marquetry table tops without worrying too much about the glue. They would then get a big flat plate of cast iron off the woodstove and place it on top of the work to re-activate the glue and bond everything properly.

Simple but effective! ;)
 
#65
Matthew Tucker said:
40-50. Don't worry about making the spools round, cutting them from square stock works just as well (I find even better) as round ones. Face them with firm rubber or plastic or leather or cork to protect the edges and provide grip.
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+1 Though if you want to make round clamps, it's really easy to do with a drill press or big hand-held drill and a 2" diameter keyhole bit. This will get you round plugs with a pre-drilled hole right where you need it for the threaded rod..
 
#66
Not to rain on your parade, but IMO, you need to stop where you are, do a lot of research, and start over. There is so much you obviously don't know that I'm afraid you'll end up with firewood if you keep going the way you are. For example, look at the cleats in the before and after shots in this restoration (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1525&page=5) and then look at your work. This kind of work requires attention to detail at a level you don't seem to understand based on the pictures of the "finished" work on the top of the instrument. Luthiers, feel free to flame away if I'm wrong.
 
#67
salcott said:
Not to rain on your parade, but IMO, you need to stop where you are, do a lot of research, and start over. There is so much you obviously don't know that I'm afraid you'll end up with firewood if you keep going the way you are. For example, look at the cleats in the before and after shots in this restoration (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1525&page=5) and then look at your work. This kind of work requires attention to detail at a level you don't seem to understand based on the pictures of the "finished" work on the top of the instrument. Luthiers, feel free to flame away if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

In a way you're right. The cleats need to be thinned out. Also, do you plan on inlaying a soundpost patch? There looks to be a crack right under where the post sits. The only way to repair this crack where it will hold and not split back open is to inlay a patch..
 
#68
salcott said:
Not to rain on your parade, but IMO, you need to stop where you are, do a lot of research, and start over. There is so much you obviously don't know that I'm afraid you'll end up with firewood if you keep going the way you are. For example, look at the cleats in the before and after shots in this restoration (http://www.smithbassforums.com/showthread.php?t=1525&page=5) and then look at your work. This kind of work requires attention to detail at a level you don't seem to understand based on the pictures of the "finished" work on the top of the instrument. Luthiers, feel free to flame away if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

I am sure that u are right! I am not 100% sure that the current repair on the bass was done right, I am not going to proceed until I got a idea of what i am doing, unfortunately I don't have a mentor, but I got u guys to help me out! My next step is study the book and hopefully I will be able to repair the bass with no majors screw ups
:)
 
#69
Now guys I got the book I got it yesterday... I want to focus on the top repair first... and then move on to the inside of the bass... I will do as much research as I can, but I want to ask you, if you were doing this restoration, what do you think it need to be done to this top?
 
#70
DallasStrings said:
In a way you're right. The cleats need to be thinned out. Also, do you plan on inlaying a soundpost patch? There looks to be a crack right under where the post sits. The only way to repair this crack where it will hold and not split back open is to inlay a patch..
Click to expand...

I going to get more pictures to this area... and use some chalk to highlight the crack I haven't get to the Inlaying Patch chapter :)

Now what I don’t really know if the currents repairs are good enough or need more work
 
#71
You need to make sure that all the repairs that already have been done are sound (remove cleats, flex the cracks gently, if they open up clean them and reglue and re-cleat) and then do your own repairs (clean out the open cracks, glue up carefully, cleat or patch as needed etc) and repair/replace all the damaged wood at the edges and at the blocks. Anything missing, put it back. You should be able to put the finished top on a flat surface and have it contact all around. Not always easy ...
 
#72
100_3718-1.jpg


100_3721-1.jpg


100_3716-1.jpg


The ones in Red are open and ones in black look solid…
I don’t know yet but I may have to remove the bass bar..Thats worries me

PS I wont do anything without rehearsal the procedure first on scrap wood
 
#73
Matthew Tucker said:
You need to make sure that all the repairs that already have been done are sound (remove cleats, flex the cracks gently, if they open up clean them and reglue and re-cleat) and then do your own repairs (clean out the open cracks, glue up carefully, cleat or patch as needed etc) and repair/replace all the damaged wood at the edges and at the blocks. Anything missing, put it back. You should be able to put the finished top on a flat surface and have it contact all around. Not always easy ...
Click to expand...

I got what u are saying, even if the crack are solid remove all cleats and check it all cracks are re cleat.
I am also looking at the end pin block it need to be re attach, it doesnt look like a hard task for what I read...
yesterday I realized that I did not secure the ribs after detaching the front, should I be worry about it?
 
#75
Heifetzbass said:
I would really check out the crack underneath the bass bar. I would probably take off the bar, maybe you would need to plane it off? I will let Matthew and the others discuss that? This would be the time to address that crack for sure.

BG
Click to expand...

Does it even go under the bar? Or has the bar stopped the spread of the crack? I wouldn't do anything to the bar unless abso-friggin-lutely necessary. A soundpost patch is easy in comparison to carving a new bass bar..
 
#78
I think you can glue those cracks near the bassbar OK.

The challenge is to get the glueing surfaces really clean (remove all old glue if there is some) and then to work the hot glue right into the crack without opening the crack any more than necessary. Sometimes you even have to open the crack a bit more to get at the glueing surfaces! You can glue temporary cleats on one side of the crack to help keep the two edges aligned when glueing, then plane these off carefully and put your full-timers in later.

Get all that old glue and bad cleats off first. spray bottle, plastic scraper, rags, patience.

Are those black strips glued with epoxy?
 

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