My guitar Player is Drowning Me

[flam]

I compete with my guitarist (who plays a 1976 100w marshall jmp full stack) using a 100 watt peavey windsor and a 2x15. Never have any problems keeping up, even when it's at the painful-with-earplugs-in point.

IME, tone plays a massively important part in being able to hear yourself. Granted, I don't like a clean sound anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

 

[buldog5151bass]

That all depends on the drummer. How loud does he play (a metal drummer is going to have to play way louder then a jazz drummer) You need to match the drummers volume.

I understand that, and I play rock, modern country, and jazz. The drummer has to have control on volume as well. No saying he won't be playing louder than I do, but no excuses for excessive volume. I've said it before - if you look at most bands playing at the biggest venues, the stage volume is not ear bleeding (that's for FOH). I've seen the Rolling Stones talking to each other on stage mid-song while playing outdoor gigs. They weren't/aren't exactly known as a soft band live.

 

[cchorney]

The guitar player bought the new amp with the express intention of dominating the band volume-wise.

My advice: Keep the amp you have. Turn it DOWN to accentuate the volume disbalance between the bass and guitar. If the guitar player or other band members do not get the message, they will never get the message and you may as well leave the band.

Sadly, this. You can't win a volume war with a guitarist without spending unnecessarily and possibly damaging your hearing.

You have to get the guitarist to turn down. (good luck on this one) If you can't, you need to protect your hearing. A cheap solution that will let you hear yourself and protect your hearing is run headphone outs from your amp to a splitter, then to headphones to you and to your drummer. If he won't turn down and you can't come up with a way to hear yourself while protecting your hearing, then I would suggesting either quitting the band or firing the guitarist. Tinnitus sucks, as does saying "what?" all the time.

 

[danosix]

Get a big cab (8x10, 6x10, 2x15, 4x12), add a duplicate of the cab you already have, or get a new guitar player. Also ear plugs.

+1 on the new guitar player.
Actually - just remind him (now that he's had a practice or two to play with his new toy) that there is a volume control on his amp.
If he pulls the "it needs to be turned up to get the tone", then shoot him - there is no hope as he has the incurable guitarist disease. Oddly, the same guys who love to say that never seem to be the ones who get lower wattage amps to get that tone, so seriously, do the world a favour and put him out of our misery.

 

[bassboysam]

Idiot guitards and drummers have ruined my hearing.

earplugs or quit maybe?

The loud guitar player can be replaced. Your ears can't.

earplugs

If you have to wear ear plugs at practice, the band is too loud. You want to be able to hear everything clearly, warts and all, at practice without going deaf. That is the purpose of practice. If you can't get a good mix at practice, you are doomed at a gig. I have a 1,000 watt head and two 4x10 cabs I use at practice but I know where the volume and gain controls are and don't get louder than the guitar player who is playing through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe at very reasonable volume. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

we wear earplugs at practice, are we too loud? judging by a lot of comments here, yes. But we know what we are doing, you can hear everyone clearly and we know how to EQ and postion our rigs to get a good mix. It's just as important to practice getting the right mix as it it to practice playing songs. We've gotten quite good most sound guys at shows just turn up the volume on the board, no need for him or her to tweak anything and most comment on how easy a band we are to work with because we have our shvt together.

There is no winner in volume wars. First casualty is the singers voice straining to be heard, then your practice location, then the band starts fighting and is lost because everyone is fighting over practice volume.


In-ear monitors and electronic drums for practices. Everyone has their own volume, practices are easier, there is no load in except at gigs, location choices are plentiful and comfortable, and you get to keep your ears.

Pride gets in the way though I know, someone in the band is playing as a stress release and the volume is part of their therapy or they have to have their effects and their sound etc etc blah. Bring a Digitech, it is close enough for government work and for band practice. The loud folks can still turn themselves up in their own phones without killing the band, without straining the vocalists voice, and without forcing everyone to spend hard earned money on amps they have to store and haul around just to be heard over one guy that won't play with the team.

Practice and play loud at home and at gigs, rehearsal doesn't have to be that way. That video above is the best advice I've heard for a practicing small band.

not everyone plays a gig every week. so for some, practice is the gig and we want to be able to use our gear and have fun. Unless the band is your only source of income then who cares? just have fun with it and use hearing protection.

As others have mentioned the 6 string will win the volume war 99.9% of the time.

In my experience, either the guitar player doesn't give a crap about hearing you or anyone but himself, and he should be ejected from your band. Or you haven't actually mentioned it to him and are planning to compete or don't care enough about the sound of your band in which case you should just turn your volume off and mime along cause no ones gonna hear you.

This isn't a problem that can be solved by buying ****, talk to your guitarist and it can be solved with bass knob on his eq. The guitar shouldn't be eating your frequency range, ever.

once again, earplugs. i got my custom molded earplugs at Costco for $150, I have the choice between -25db and -15db filters. typically the 15s do the trick.

 

[interp]

Just had another idea how you could get your point across to the guitarist: Wouldn't it be fun to rent/borrow/steal two or three SVT heads and about four cabs, bring them to the next practice and dime them all?

 

[vbchaos]

Just had another idea how you could get your point across to the guitarist: Wouldn't it be fun to rent/borrow/steal two or three SVT heads and about four cabs, bring them to the next practice and dime them all?

Although I am a big fan of such things just to make a point, what is so damn difficult with a chat with the guy?
In all seriousness - if you cannot find your playing level volumewise in a band, how do you even dare to think you can FUNCTION as a band?

 

[s0c9]

Although I am a big fan of such things just to make a point, what is so damn difficult with a chat with the guy?
In all seriousness - if you cannot find your playing level volumewise in a band, how do you even dare to think you can FUNCTION as a band?

THIS !!!
Back when I played guitar, I was in a band with a lead guitar player just like the OP.. needed to "feel" his sound.
Complained the he could never hear me or the bass (he was other side of drums) and wanted us to turn up.
Both bass and I suggested he turn DOWN so he could hear us better.. he refused.. so did we. Stalemate.. and it made gigs a challenge.

When I split from that band, and formed my own, he constantly emailed me looking to join the new band.. flat out told him he was too loud and besides.. we didn't need 2 lead guitars.. AFAIK - he's still not playing..

 

[Cristofre]

Arrived at REHEARSAL with this monster.

Grr... One of my pet peeves. Musicians that want to practice at concert level volume, especially horrible in the typical practice space.

 

[I am Soma]

earplugs or quit maybe?


earplugs


we wear earplugs at practice, are we too loud? judging by a lot of comments here, yes. But we know what we are doing, you can hear everyone clearly and we know how to EQ and postion our rigs to get a good mix. It's just as important to practice getting the right mix as it it to practice playing songs. We've gotten quite good most sound guys at shows just turn up the volume on the board, no need for him or her to tweak anything and most comment on how easy a band we are to work with because we have our shvt together.


not everyone plays a gig every week. so for some, practice is the gig and we want to be able to use our gear and have fun. Unless the band is your only source of income then who cares? just have fun with it and use hearing protection.


once again, earplugs. i got my custom molded earplugs at Costco for $150, I have the choice between -25db and -15db filters. typically the 15s do the trick.

+1 all day. i LOVE practicing at concert volume and utilizing my gear. i want to feel the loudness and take the precautions to protect my hearing.

 

[I am Soma]

Arrived at REHEARSAL with this monster.

Grr... One of my pet peeves. Musicians that want to practice at concert level volume, especially horrible in the typical practice space.

there are many of us who like practicing at concert level volume in a practice space. my pet peeve are the turn it down musicians... ear plugs. to each their own.

 

[Cristofre]

there are many of us who like practicing at concert level volume in a practice space. my pet peeve are the turn it down musicians... ear plugs. to each their own.

Well, I guess if you protect your ears, and all members have the equal volume capability, and the neighbors don't get pissed, and the cops don't show up, well, then ok...lol
I've just had the opposite experience too many times.

 

[ggunn]

Although I am a big fan of such things just to make a point, what is so damn difficult with a chat with the guy?
In all seriousness - if you cannot find your playing level volumewise in a band, how do you even dare to think you can FUNCTION as a band?

I absolutely agree. Playing music is all about communication, and if the OP cannot have an adult to adult conversation with the guy then the band has other problems. This should not be a "I have a problem" discussion, but a "the band has a problem" talk. Likewise, the solution should be something you work on as a team to arrive at, but "everybody turn up" isn't it.

 

[Russell L]

Do ya'll play gigs that require concert-level volume? Certainly practice doesn't. My rule is to play only what is needed by everyone. And if your amp and speakers are too much then you must come down in volume to match the rest of the band. (So why carry around too much equipment if you don't need it, right?). So, talk to the guitarist about it, or the band leader. The last band I was in that had too much stage volume didn't work out for me. After talking and explaining what I need as the bassist nothing got better. So, I fixed the problem and quit. Now the band I'm in makes a point not to play any louder than we need to. And the guitarist is also a bassist, so he understands what I need, including not having the kick drum too loud or deep, not to mention the harrassment a keyboardist's left hand can wreak. Most non-bassists haven't a clue what their sounds do to the bass line. Talk.

 

[chaosMK]

I'd try to get the guitarist to be as reasonable as possible since that is the cheapest fix (although my band used to practice at stage volume. We'd keep our gear set the same for practice or stage! I am one of those who digs feeling the vibrations in the body/air). You can EQ for things too... less deep low end, more low mids (~150-250Hz) and mids. That always helps with cutting through and taxes your power section less than the sub-100hz frequencies do.

I hate not being heard in practice. It can be struggle enough to be a big part of the creative process when you are bassist, situations become hopeless when no one can hear you! Always dial for the mix and if necessary, upgrade to the Invalid Link Removed.

 

[electracoyote]

Band meeting. Let's talk about rehearsal and stage volume.

The drummer, the un-amplified member, should be setting the volume threshold. No one plays louder than the drummer.

If bands would hold to that simple rule, volume wars would not happen.

 

[bassboysam]

Do ya'll play gigs that require concert-level volume? Certainly practice doesn't. My rule is to play only what is needed by everyone. And if your amp and speakers are too much then you must come down in volume to match the rest of the band. (So why carry around too much equipment if you don't need it, right?). So, talk to the guitarist about it, or the band leader. The last band I was in that had too much stage volume didn't work out for me. After talking and explaining what I need as the bassist nothing got better. So, I fixed the problem and quit. Now the band I'm in makes a point not to play any louder than we need to. And the guitarist is also a bassist, so he understands what I need, including not having the kick drum too loud or deep, not to mention the harrassment a keyboardist's left hand can wreak. Most non-bassists haven't a clue what their sounds do to the bass line. Talk.

our gigs are always "concert" level. we don't play at functions (coprorate gigs, weddings etc.), we play small clubs 50-300 person venues where the entertainment are the bands. No one goes to our shows expecting to be able to have a sit down meal and converstation.

 

[hsech]

Some genres are louder than others.

As mentioned, my band sets our level to the drums. We play in a loud genre, so our drummer is fairly loud, and rehearsal rooms are generally not very big. That is not a problem, it's the nature of the beast. Even if we played straight ahead rock, instead of doom metal, and so were quieter, I would still wear ear plugs if I had to stand near the drums especially. I can hear everything clearly at rehearsal... with ear plugs in. They've progressed quite a ways beyond the crummy foam ones.

Your experiences and needs are not the same as other people's.

Were you setting your band levels to the drummer when your guitar player had a smaller amp? Did the drummer start playing louder when the guitar player got a bigger amp? I'm not real sure what the size of the practice room have to do with anything unless it has good acoustics. I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm trying to understand what you are saying.

 

[the harp unstrung]

Also ear plugs.

WHAT HE SAID!!!!

 

[the harp unstrung]

You can't be throwing guitar heads in the tub like that...... gently hand it to the guitarist while he's in the tub, then plug it in from a safe distance.

Walkin' away, the best line of the day!