My preamp journey

[moon-bass]

I'm still waiting for someone to design and build my holy grail preamp - Fender TMB with "deep" and "mid boost" switches, switchable parametric EQ (two bands), and adjustable HPF and LPF. Tube driven, always on, with switchable dirt (a foot switch that you can recall gain/volume settings from you you can kick in a little dirt without affecting overall volume).

 

[Maxi Funkl]

I'm still waiting for someone to design and build my holy grail preamp - Fender TMB with "deep" and "mid boost" switches, switchable parametric EQ (two bands), and adjustable HPF and LPF. Tube driven, always on, with switchable dirt (a foot switch that you can recall gain/volume settings from you you can kick in a little dirt without affecting overall volume).

Moon I've read how HPF & LPF work but still not sure how that works in real life use?
Can you help with a explanation for mu sub novice pedal self?

 

[moon-bass]

Moon I've read how HPF & LPF work but still not sure how that works in real life use?
Can you help with a explanation for mu sub novice pedal self?

Here's the way that I think of it and what's most important for me -

Short answer:
HPF reduces low end "junk" and boominess from your tone'
LPF reduces high end artifacts (think fret clank and distortion noise)

Long answer:
An LPF helps to tame low frequencies - too much of a good thing, if you know what I am saying. Ever been in a room where there is just too much bass? This helps control that. There are other benefits as well - by reducing sub-sonic frequencies your amp doesn't work as hard. Also helps to normalize volume levels so that low B doesn't kill anyone's ear.

LPF - have you ever had a nice, high end full range cab with a horn or a tweeter? I really don't care much for tweeters, too much fret noise, clang, hiss, and distortion sounds like junk. The LPF reduces/eliminates all of that. If you do like a cab with tweeters, the LPF helps to tame that high end somewhat so it's not so present and over powering.

Both have become integral parts of my setup.

 

[Maxi Funkl]

Here's the way that I think of it and what's most important for me -

Short answer:
HPF reduces low end "junk" and boominess from your tone'
LPF reduces high end artifacts (think fret clank and distortion noise)

Long answer:
An LPF helps to tame low frequencies - too much of a good thing, if you know what I am saying. Ever been in a room where there is just too much bass? This helps control that. There are other benefits as well - by reducing sub-sonic frequencies your amp doesn't work as hard. Also helps to normalize volume levels so that low B doesn't kill anyone's ear.

LPF - have you ever had a nice, high end full range cab with a horn or a tweeter? I really don't care much for tweeters, too much fret noise, clang, hiss, and distortion sounds like junk. The LPF reduces/eliminates all of that. If you do like a cab with tweeters, the LPF helps to tame that high end somewhat so it's not so present and over powering.

Both have become integral parts of my setup.

Thank you now I get it.

Genzler M pre has HPF Broughton Messenger has both but right now it the harder piece of gear to obtain so maybe Genzler is the way to go. Until I can get my hands a Messenger.

 

[Michael Vee]

The week the Genzler Pre/DI came out, I saw someone had posted a gripe in another thread that the back panel is not pedalboard R>L ergonomic. Looking at the rear, the Instrument Input is not on the far left, it's on the far right, and the Preamp Output is not over on far right, it's two jacks to the left from the input. Also, the Aux Input probably should be next to the Headphone Output.

I've thought the same things, but didn't want to spoil the fun in the Genzler Amplification thread. Subsequently, Andy Field said that he didn't design the Pre/DI pedal, but that someone at Genzler did. I have a feeling if Andy had, it'd be a more expected layout around back.

Of course, if you are using this pedal by itself, it doesn't matter. It's a minor quibble at least. It's getting very good reviews.

Me - I'm still enjoying my Empress ParaEQ Deluxe, even without a DI out!

 

[Maxi Funkl]

I just ordered the Genzler Magellan Pre-amp/DI. Hopefully it works out as I hope.

 

[moon-bass]

Thank you now I get it.

Genzler M pre has HPF Broughton Messenger has both but right now it the harder piece of gear to obtain so maybe Genzler is the way to go. Until I can get my hands a Messenger.

I think there might be a Messenger or two in the classifieds right now ..

 

[moon-bass]

No shame in that. Oh, and look at the Crucial Audio DUB-1. Probably exactly what you are looking for.
Tube Preamp/DI Sound Samples — Noble, Oracle, P-15, Super Stack, REDDI, Tonecraft, Jule...

I just stumbled across a Ampeg SVT-DI for a good price. Going to see how that sounds.

 

[scubaduba]

The SVT-DI sounds great but further from the Noble than the DUB-1. I have audio samples of all the devices here: Tube Preamp/DI Sound Samples — Noble, Oracle, P-15, Super Stack, REDDI, Tonecraft, Jule...

 

[Maxi Funkl]

I think there might be a Messenger or two in the classifieds right now ..

opps should have looked.

 

[moon-bass]

The SVT-DI sounds great but further from the Noble than the DUB-1. I have audio samples of all the devices here: Tube Preamp/DI Sound Samples — Noble, Oracle, P-15, Super Stack, REDDI, Tonecraft, Jule...

Oh yeah, I have been following your thread and listening to the sound samples for a long time. How do you think I got into this mess

I got it for a good price, I figured if I don't like it I can always sell it for about what I paid for it or trade it. The SVT-DI is held in pretty high regard so why not?

 

[moon-bass]

Ended up picking up a Demeter DI and a Khan in addition to the SVTDI. I'm looking for a Crucial used. I'm going to play DI thunderdome!

I wish the REDDI was smaller. I loved the tone, but just not practical to move around.

 

[Maxi Funkl]

I just ordered the Genzler Magellan Pre-amp/DI. Hopefully it works out as I hope.

Gave the Genzler Magellan Pre-amp a quick spin. Set the Cioks to 18V. It was late so I couldn't really crank it. I used my MIJ Geddy Lee Jazz & Charvel P/J IV. The Contour A/B switch I went in thinking I'd like B more than A. But I loved the thickness of A. Honestly still haven't figured it out completely.
For those worried about the input & outputs of the pedal being reversed to what most are use to it wasn't an issue at all. But the preamp is the final pedal on my board. I set my Genz-Benz Contour 500 2x10 combo to flat even the contour knob was set to 12 0'clock. (I'll need to play around with that setting more.)

Can't wait to try out my EBMMSRS tonight to test drive humbuckers through the pedal. So far I'm very pleased with the pedal.

 

[Michael Vee]

And now, we have this. Announced today. Mein Gott! Beautiful.

Here's the link, don't go there unless you love temptation: Super Pre | Bergantino Audio Systems Let's share the pain.

Of course, it is only $700.

Here is the TB discussion thread: Bergantino Super Pre

From the Berg website:

• Lightweight and durable casing
• Ultra-crisp and easy-to-read OLED display
• Two Studio-Quality DIs – Pre and Post, Latency compensated
• Revolutionary Bergantino Speaker-File EQ System
• 4-Band Multifunction EQ with adjustable frequency range and “Q”
• DSP Embedded System Controlled Bass Pre-Amp
• Software selectable Input Impedance
• User choice of serial or parallel VRC compressor
• Programmable Scene Gain (-6db to +6db – scene savable)
• Programmable Filters: Bright Switch, Variable High-Pass Filter, Variable Low-Pass Filter, Variable Feedback filter
• 

 

[el murdoque]

And now, we have this. Announced today. Mein Gott! Beautiful.

Here's the link, don't go there unless you love temptation: Super Pre | Bergantino Audio Systems

Not to rain on anybodies parade, but I looked at it and it felt rather disappointing.
The taste in my mouth is that of a HX Stomp with severely reduced functions for a hundred bucks more.
Plus, the visual feedback seems pretty lacking. A 2x20 characters display seems quite 2005 to me. If the lights under the display labeled Mem1-3 are meant to tell the user which patch is active, the placement is a bit weird, hidden behind the knobs and not properly oriented with the switches, will not help at a glance from a few feet away.

 

[Michael Vee]

That's fair. We'll see how it shakes out.

 

[gtirard]

Not to rain on anybodies parade, but I looked at it and it felt rather disappointing.
The taste in my mouth is that of a HX Stomp with severely reduced functions for a hundred bucks more.
Plus, the visual feedback seems pretty lacking. A 2x20 characters display seems quite 2005 to me. If the lights under the display labeled Mem1-3 are meant to tell the user which patch is active, the placement is a bit weird, hidden behind the knobs and not properly oriented with the switches, will not help at a glance from a few feet away.

Technically, it is like a limited HXS, but with 2 DIs out instead of none. And a set of features that are probably super well tailored for bass preamplification, for clean and dirty sounds. That's cool for those who don't use FX (or only compression and dirt pedals).

In terms of use, I see it more like a super versatile preamp with memory (think of a Revolt or a Capo with a save function).

I have a HXS that I don't use so often because I almost never use FX, and I prefer to have an instant access to all the settings rather than presets, but it's just me.

It's not for me, but I think there is a market for that, and I don't think the features/price ratio comparison is relevant, especially for preamps: the value is high if it has a super great tone and the features you need. Why would the Noble sell so well otherwise? Also, it seems to be expensive for the hardware you get, but you mostly pay for a lot of R&D and software development.

Anyway, we never had such a great choice of bass gear.

 

[agedhorse]

The week the Genzler Pre/DI came out, I saw someone had posted a gripe in another thread that the back panel is not pedalboard R>L ergonomic. Looking at the rear, the Instrument Input is not on the far left, it's on the far right, and the Preamp Output is not over on far right, it's two jacks to the left from the input. Also, the Aux Input probably should be next to the Headphone Output.

I've thought the same things, but didn't want to spoil the fun in the Genzler Amplification thread. Subsequently, Andy Field said that he didn't design the Pre/DI pedal, but that someone at Genzler did. I have a feeling if Andy had, it'd be a more expected layout around back.

Of course, if you are using this pedal by itself, it doesn't matter. It's a minor quibble at least. It's getting very good reviews.

View attachment 4961748

Actually, I would have laid it out the same way Scott did, for the same reasons.

Looks like the new Bergantino preamp is laid out the same way, maybe it’s a trend? Or a conspiracy? Ooooh!

 

[Michael Vee]

Actually, I would have laid it out the same way Scott did, for the same reasons. Looks like the new Bergantino preamp is laid out the same way, maybe it’s a trend? Or a conspiracy? Ooooh!

Andy, what is the thought process behind this particular layout? It has to be a better design with the components used, since it's not the usual R>L pedalboard flow.

 

[agedhorse]

Andy, what is the thought process behind this particular layout? It has to be a better design with the components used, since it's not the usual R>L pedalboard flow.

It follows the signal flow through the pedal, just like most amps. With the input jack closest to the gain knob, the output closest to the master knob. Allows for the most direct signal path and the keadt amount of crossing or back & forth of the signals which improves noise and crosstalk.

This is exactly how mixing consoles are designed and for the same reasons. Both Scott and I come from the pro audio world, and understand these issues. These pedals are very quiet with minimal crosstalk, not so common in the pedal world.