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My rented backline adventures

I keep forgetting to take pics of the backline stuff I've used the past few weeks.
pretty basic stuff, solid state ampeg stuff w/ 410 cabs.
I did have an ashdown combo w a 15 cab, and it sounded pretty good.
Most of these gigs have been really mellow, so no needs beyond a light handed drummer.

Next couple of weeks will all change though, I will try to take pics. European backlines can be dicey at best.
 
My worst story related with backline was with my accoustic band. We have a pretty good name locally and we were playing a well know venue. The place isn't huge, so, we only bring PA for vocals and the rest uses amps supplied by the venue. Guitarists get nice fishman amps and I had no bass amp to be seen. The owner tells me to use the one in the corner: a Fender Reverb guitar amp of some sort. Oh well... at least I made some sound
 
Today's rental rig:

Rig7-02-2013_zpsdefc67cf.jpg


At the South Shore Music Circus in Cohasset, MA with Bowzer and a bunch of other 50's-60's acts. Interesting rig...an SVT 4 Pro with a mid-70's towel bar 810 covered in Duratex. Had to lay it on the floor since the Music Circus has a rotating stage and it blocks sight lines. Oh well, what can you do? Sounds killer, though. 4 Pro hits hard like a hammer. Every time I play one I enjoy it more.

Do you ever get to tilt the cabinet back to get a little of the speakers in your ear, or does it work laying flat like that? Twice now, I've tilted my EBS 410 back with audio angular correction devices (okay, a 2X4 staub)) and it worked fine. Yeah, I like to hear a little of the tweeter and the string rattle. The second time I did that, I wound up wishing for another cab, too!
 
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and monitor situation (which usually doesn't favor us bass players).

There is an old saying between fulltime professional soundmen/techs "if you can easily move a monitor by yourself its not a real monitor". Real monitors have no problem supporting bass.

If you want a good overall band mix - don't bury the drums.

If a PA is really big enough to support drums then its also large enough to support bass too - so a bass amp only needs to be loud enough to keep up with acoustic drums - not bury them.
 
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There is an old saying between fulltime professional soundmen/techs "if you can easily move a monitor by yourself its not a real monitor". Real monitors have no problem supporting bass.

If you want a good overall band mix - don't bury the drums.

If a PA is really big enough to support drums then its also large enough to support bass too - so a bass amp only needs to be loud enough to keep up with acoustic drums - not bury them.


I can count on one hand the times I've had "real monitors", and I've been playing in some form or fashion for almost 30 years. :D
 
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Monitors B.jpg
Monitoring A.jpg
I can count on one hand the times I've had "real monitors", and I've been playing in some form or fashion for almost 30 years. :D

Then you know too. And the cheap little PA mains and monitors that most bar bands own that can't support bass can't support drums either. I use to work with West Coast and Golden State Sound - and Jimmy plays regularly on stages with real monitors and has said he's also done gigs with his little Ampeg BA110 carrying the room too - ask him. I've carried the room with just my little tiny GK MB110 too.

EDIT: Anyway, if you want a good mix - don't bury the drums.
 
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I can count on one hand the times I've had "real monitors", and I've been playing in some form or fashion for almost 30 years. :D

I've taken care of a few monitors this way. Recently, a couple side fills that have gone belly up a song or two in for our drummer. :) And that's WITH me using an amp that's a bit bigger than a 110.
 
I've taken care of a few monitors this way. Recently, a couple side fills that have gone belly up a song or two in for our drummer. :) And that's WITH me using an amp that's a bit bigger than a 110.


There was one time, only once, on a good sized openair stage I gave my drummer one cab, the guitar player the other, and went with nothing behind me. This because they were having trouble hearing over there and I had a big 215+horn sidefill 6-8ft. to my right with a very nice full mix in it. Didn't miss my rig that time. Other side of the stage had the same type of big sidefill but something was wrong over there, and the drummers monitor was some old, distorted, crackly POS fartbox.
 
I give a good conscientious heads up any time I hear a monitor on stage distort from over excursion. I'll do it on stage during sound check or even during a gig, between songs. "Hey, your drummer side fill is distorting up here from excursion...you might want to check it." Or something like that. If they ignore or shrug it off it usually fails in short order then our drummer complains for his lack of monitor. ;) I've been stages of all sizes and all tiers, not all PA's are created equally.
 
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I give a good conscientious heads up any time I hear a monitor on stage distort from over excursion. I'll do it on stage during sound check or even during a gig, between songs. "Hey, your drummer side fill is distorting up here from excursion...you might want to check it." Or something like that. If they ignore or shrug it off it usually fails in short order then our drummer complains for his lack of monitor. ;) I've been stages of all sizes and all tiers, not all PA's are created equally.


For this deal, the whole PA/stage setup was so overblown for the event it was beyond funny. Piles of folded horn subs, line arrays, racks full of amps, wireless mics that never left their stands, full trusses/lighting job.....the works. We could've played to 8000 people with that rig.


It was for a church function in a parking lot with families walking around eating ice cream. :D
 
That's pretty funny. When I saw the Peavey rig I thought, "Man, I wouldn't be happy" then I saw the Kustom 315 rig and laughed because that would be a way to make it even worse.
I would have been quite happy with that Peavey rig. I like those old Peaveys.

I've never understood guitarists using such powerful amps, especially those who feel they need to crank them to get "the tone". Unless you're playing a stadium without PA support, a 40-ish watt 1x12 combo will be loud enough to make anyone's ears bleed.

Thankfully my current guitarist doesn't go for anything larger than a Hotrod Deluxe.
To some extent it's true, but it also depends on the genre. I just think if the bass is limited to a single 4x10, it's weird to use two 100 watt combos for guitar.

My folk/rock band I'm usually playing through my 1x15 cab, as the guitarist is usually playing through a small, single speaker, <30W combo. Works fine, except that the sound is going past my knees. I prefer when he uses a bigger amp, because then I get to use my giant 2x15.

In my main doom metal band, each guitarist is going through a half stack, though none of the amps are over 50W. I'm going through my 180W tube head and my giant 2x15. Appropriate rigs for appropriate contexts.

They were there. I'll give him credit...Jon didn't yell at him and he wasn't any louder than he normally is, but still, that's just asking for it.
Yeah, it just seems silly to me when the bass rig is relatively small.

I wouldn't expect to... but many guys who play locally or regionally also see provided backline. There's never a good excuse to roll those dice when you can still bring your own gear, even if it's just to leave it sitting back stage or in the car.

Our keyboard player runs afoul of this all the time. If he can avoid bringing an amp he will. If they have a PA he figures there will be monitors, or if its a multi-band that he can 'borrow' for the set. And it bites him in the ass more often than it works out. Then he spends all night not hearing himself through a terrible monitor mix, or a horrible amp while his could have easily fit in the car and is also in town. He doesn't have a huge rig. He uses my old Schroeder 1212 and one of my backup amps (LMII, old PA head or Hartke 3500). Its not that much to cart or carry.

I smile and nod the whole time he complains about not being able to hear himself on stage. ;)
My doom metal band's keyboardist/third guitarist has just gotten used to being able to play his parts without actually being able to hear them very well, as we almost never play places with decent monitors, or monitors at all.

A bass amp needs to be loud enough that the bass player is comfortable on stage with the volume it provides, whatever that may be.
+1

And it'll be different for different gigs.

+1

And how much that needs,to be can vary quite a lot depending on the stage, venue, and monitor situation (which usually doesn't favor us bass players).
Indeed not. Bass through monitors, in my experience, usually either sounds bad, or is nearly inaudible, or both.

My worst story related with backline was with my accoustic band. We have a pretty good name locally and we were playing a well know venue. The place isn't huge, so, we only bring PA for vocals and the rest uses amps supplied by the venue. Guitarists get nice fishman amps and I had no bass amp to be seen. The owner tells me to use the one in the corner: a Fender Reverb guitar amp of some sort. Oh well... at least I made some sound
Play through it and blow the speakers?

I can count on one hand the times I've had "real monitors", and I've been playing in some form or fashion for almost 30 years. :D
Yep. I almost never have them. I tend to assume there won't be any, every show.
 
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So if you play doom metal you are doomed to not have good monitors.
I never said that the tendency not to get good monitoring was specific to my doom metal band.

IME, crap monitoring isn't limited to the doom metal scene. They seem to be fairly widespread and not really genre specific at all. :D
+1

Yep. I almost never get decent monitoring with folk/rock either, despite that being much more accessible than doom metal.
 
I never said that the tendency not to get good monitoring was specific to my doom metal band.


+1

Yep. I almost never get decent monitoring with folk/rock either, despite that being much more accessible than doom metal.


IMO, this is sort of a throwback, or "thought error" stemming from small systems where monitors really don't have to carry bass/kick...vocals/acoustic gtr./maybe keys only. They seem to forget about the lower end of things when scaling up the system for bigger/louder stuff, yet still ask for low stage volume. ;)
 
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I play through a lot of excellent monitors, too, and to this day I haven't heard one I like better than any amp I own, even the cheap ones.

And while it's not necessarily exclusive to doom, I'll say this, though...loud instrument stage volume makes even the best monitor systems struggle with getting your vocals up enough to hear them.
 
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Did a fly-in last week and the backline amp ended up being....wait for it.....non-existent. Sent my signal through my REDDI and since the monitors were decent, had a really good night. Honestly forgot there was no cab sitting back there. Actually, my current "job" requires me to be all over the stage with a headset etc. anyway (being Rick Savage), so I only ever hear my amp monitor when I'm near it. Has me re-thinking my whole approach these days :)
 
The REDDI is totally excellent, no doubt. If I had to listen to my bass through monitors, it's about the only DI I'd care to use. Really sorry I left mine at home on this trip. Won't be happening again.
 
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