N. B. D. - 1966 Fender Precision Bass

[Engine207]

A fun fact on '66 Fenders..... when I pulled the pickguard off mine, I saw "ES" stamped into the body. I assumed the bass had been previously owned by somebody with those initials who had stamped them in to identify in case of theft. I pulled the paragraph below off a web site:

1966 and the "ES" Stamp.
In 1966, Fender used the "ES" code a lot on their custom color instruments. At least for 1966, the ES code was used as some sort of default for custom colored instruments (be it Teles, or Strats or Jazz Basses). This two letters ("ES" for "Enter Special") seems to denote a special order, at least for 1966. Again this is has been seen lots of times on 1966 documented original custom color instruments. I have also seen the "ES" stamp on some 1966 sunburst instruments! (Perhaps these guitars were special show models, so extra care was taken in their finish.) The 1/2" tall 2-letter code were a factory color code, and are completely different than the 1/2" tall three-digit codes. The two-letter code appears to be CBS/Fender's way of specifying bodies to be painted a custom color for a special order once the body was in the spray booth. If a guitar has a two letter code on the body *only* (and not the neck), again this confirms the 2-letter code was an original factory color code (and does not indicate a factory refinish order). But then there is this question: why do only some 1965-1968 custom color Fenders have this two letter code and others do not? It may have to do with how many custom colored guitars were being painted at any point in time, and the 2-letter code was applied to avoid confusion. Or it was applied just for particular special orders (like a Fender NAMM show guitar or a special dealer/artist order).

...and there it is!!

The pots...

The pickups...

The neck heel, pocket, and plate...

 

[chuck norriss]

so tight

 

[artiem]

I've been a rabid Wildcats fan since my growin' up days in Evanston. II try to get out there every year for a 'Cats game, some blues time on Halsted Street and a sniff around CME.

That's awesome, I'm an NU fan myself (alum from many years back) and follow the Cats very closely.

Anyway, enjoy your bass--we should all be so lucky to own one like that in our lifetimes. Hope it brings you many years of joy...

 

[P. Aaron]

Cool score man! Congrats.

 

[miles'tone]

Loving the patina on the hardware. Good find man, congratulations!

 

[LLendrum]

I very nearly bought a 66 that my local store has. It is factory original and in such good condition it'd be considered closet classic at worst. It plays so gorgeously I completely fell in love with it and was going to try and get it despite it having the 'collector price'

As I was getting the money though a refinished 1960 P came up and I snatched it up in a trade and it is glorious.

If I won the lottery though I'd go buy that 66 anyway and put different strings on it.

Congrats to you, man, I think a good 66 can easily hold up against all but the absolute best pre-CBS P Basses. (And here come the naysayers...)

 

[Engine207]

Yeagh, I'm not enough of a Fender historian to know that, but I'm gonna check with Marc at CME today about that. It's not a super big deal to me, since this is definitely a player, not a collector. It'd be good to know.

Marc's response:

After chatting with Daniel, we've found that we see some inconsistencies throughout the 60s with Fender regarding the specs. In truth, I have seen a 1966 precision bass with the exact same tuners and I have found another one on a website listed below:

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Granted, that one had been routed for something a Jazz bass pickup. However, there were many inconsistencies from that era as they were only just beginning to standardize things with the change in ownership​

.

I dunno...is it just me? Is he saying that the presence of R tiners this heavily modded '66 is the reason the ones on mine might be original?

Wouldn't there be a year known on when they first appeared? Seems like of they were on '70 and newer, you may find some on a '69...but a '66...?

 

[Mr.Fingers]

Those tuners came into service from 1968, and were the "standard" version of the lollipop-tuners, that were used from 1966 onwards on the Jazz Bass. Some P-basses came with the lollipop tuners (which have an identical groundplate as the tuners on your bass, only the "handle" is different, and were chrome-plated instead of nickel-plated), and who had the same spacing for the mounting screws as the Kluson reverse tuners. Albeit odd, it's entirely possible that those tuners are in fact factory-original. I've seen '66 and '67 P's with the reverse tuners, lollipops and the "post 1968"-tuners like yours. But it's very well possible a previous owner swapped the reverse tuners out for these, since they turn standard. If you demount a tuner when you're restringing, try finding if there is an outline of the Kluson tuners in the recesses in the back of the headstock. Klusons had 4 folded lips at the back of the plate that secured the 2 brackets that held the wormgear in place, while these Fender-made tuners don't have those lips, if the tuners are original, those recessed holes at the back of the headstock should be entirely pristine. Alas there is no way of telling if the bass had lollipop tuners that were replaced by the tuners you have now.

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This is a '66 neck that came with the Klusons, apart from the obvious discoloration that marks the outline of those tuners, you can see tiny markings in the 8 big holes.

This is the back of the tuner like you have, you can see they're entirely flush at the back.



Long story short: nice bass, congratulations

 

[Engine207]

Long story short: nice bass, congratulations

Thanks!! And thanks for the great info on this issue. So the bottom line is that if they are original - regardless of when they were thought to have first appeared - there would be no evidence of the dimples.

I'll check that out when I get home tomorrow.

 

[Mr.Fingers]

Rougly said yes, but it's safer to assume this:

IF you see dimples, your tuners HAVE been replaced (since those dimples would mark that there were Klusons). If you don't see dimples, your tuners MAY have been replaced, since it's possible that the bass came with the lollipop tuners as found on a Jazz. But since the lollipop and this tuner share the same baseplate, it's impossible to say what happened.

If in the future you'll find this an issue (which I can entirely understand), just go on ebay, buy a set of lollipop tuners or Klusons (they can be found, not cheap, but they can be found), and sell this set, and you'll have a 100% original bass that is trackable (since the lollipops were available back in '66, and it is known that P-basses were shipped with those tuners / Klusons that came standard on this bass), and that operation would cost you in total maybe 150/200USD (price lollipop/kluson minus price these tuners)

 

[Mktrat]

A wonderful specimen. BRAVO!!

 

[Engine207]

So...update.

I traded some emails with CME, and they acknowledged that the tuners may not be original, and they bumped me a couple hundred bucks to find some correct ones. Pretty stand-up, if you ask me.

Now, I found some on eBay for $220, which seems reasonable, but the seller says they came off a 71 P. There's no (R), so they look right, but I have two questions:
1. Will swapping for them make my bass 'original'?
2. Can I count on the screw holes to line up the same as they are on the (R) tuners?

Here are the ones I'm considering:
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[JimmyM]

Nice bass, bro. But you know, the last thing I'd worry about is the tuners not being original. If it holds a tune, I'd just keep them on there. Sounds like there's a dispute whether they're real or not, and they could be real it sounds like (though I didn't read the whole thread and don't know for sure anyway), and I'd rather err on the side of caution and not spending money.

 

[bh2]

They are still the 70s style tuners... I'm no expert but I'd say they would be wrong for the 66...

Theses...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-B...239?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item19de97079f

Has the mounting lugs... see diagram.

I have 70s style machines on my 62 Jazz... I'm fine with that.

When I bought it in around 75/6 I threw away all the rusted hardware! I regret that now... I was a fool kid.

 

[Mr.Fingers]

@Engine: nice tuners, but exactly the same as are now on your bass, so you're going to replace hypothetically wrong tuners for entirely wrong tuners (they are seventies tuners). As for the tuners holes, no worries, these tuners, the lollipops AND the original Kluson Reverse (546) have the same layout and spacing of the mounting holes.

What BH2 suggest can, but those only are the correct model, but are quite different from the original Klusons (those are no-brand Japan-made tuners. Decent, but not vintage-correct, since they have a 28/1 ratio, the originals are 18/1), If you got a "refund" for not having the correct tuners (which is entirely plausible, as stated before), I'd go for the correct tuners, being the Kluson 546. The problem is that they are as we speak not available on evilbay, but they pop up every once in a while. Posting a "wanted-ad" in the For-Sale can help as well.

Those are the tuners you need, with the Philips-head mounting nut instead of the slotted one as used on fifties Fenders and Gibson Thunderbirds.

 

[One Drop]

Nice bass, cool target burst!

My favorite P is a '66, and most I've played have been monsters.

BTW, no one has yet determined what the ES stamp really meant. Most common on '66s, but the custom colour theory just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[Engine207]

Yeagh...I'm not super horny to get these (R) tuners off. I may just keep them, as JimmyM suggests. What I probably will do, is keep an eye out for some of the lollipops. I've had (different) Klusons on my Ric 4001, and they slipped all the time. Couldn't barely go a song without re-tuning. Swapped those out for Ric/Schallers (but saved them), and its much better. I was not at all happy with them.

I've always liked the lollipops, but never saw them on a p-bass. Since they're period correct, and did appear on some p-basses, I'll probably go there, when I find some.

In fact, if anyone happens to see a nice set, please pm me. Thanks in advance!

 

[Mr.Fingers]

 

[Engine207]

Gigged my Grail the other night. Worth every penny in feel, tone, and punch.

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[Herrick]

Herrick's late to the party. Congratulations, Engine207. That Precision looks sharp!