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Natural ability??

#221
Just to weigh back in with a point I made earlier, the question of "born" ability poses a problem. How do you reliably test a newborn for musical or artistic or mathematical or any other kind of talent? Maybe there is some way to do this, but I'm not aware of it. A lot of the evidence, both in anecdotal and statistical form, is studies of people's proclivities in childhood - two-year-olds, four-year-olds, etc. My belief is that these "talents" and "proclivities" are not genetic but are shaped by (often unpredictable) factors, often in early childhood and pre-conscious. It might be something as direct as a mother singing to her child, or it could be something much subtler. By the time the children are old enough for them to show an interest in music, art, etc., these dispositions are formed, but I'm skeptical that they're in the genes. If they were genetic, then you'd expect to see adopted children demonstrate "talents" related to their birth parents' "talents" and unrelated to those of the adoptive family, and I doubt there's evidence that this happens.

I'll admit not to having researched this specific question, so if someone can point to contrary studies I'm listening. But that's my general impression, and this being an internet forum, I don't mind sharing general impressions without including footnotes.
 
#228
Hey Sol,

There's always a chance. I don't know my tour schedule this year yet but I'll post it when I get it.

I did a clinic there last May. I'm not sure if I'll go back just for a clinic. But I've been talked into worse financial propositions before. I got swamp land in DC to prove it(hee hee).

This thread was interesting. I'll go back and re-read it at some point. See how much of an ass I made if myself!

peace,
anthony
 
#232
From “Why We Make Mistakes”; Thought the chapter on multitasking was interesting - supports the adage that focused, concentrated practice will help us advance quicker:

“…the gains we think we make by multitasking are often illusionary. That’s because the brain slows down when it has to juggle tasks.”

"Switching from task to task causes us to forget what we were working on in the first place; In some cases, the forgetting rate can be high as 40 percent"

"Workplace studies have found it takes up to fifteen minutes for us to regain deep state of concentration after a distraction such as a phone call"

And my favorite:
"The older we are, the harder it becomes to screen out distractions. And you don't have to be that old; the decline is noticeable after the age of forty"

So it's best to keep the TV off when we're practicing!
 
#237
I'd like to chime in. I have absolutely NO belief in innate musical ability...AT ALL. Starting young is obviously a huge advantage, but, I don't think it's much more than practice. What makes me so sure of this? Myself. I could not possess less "natural" musical ability. I started bass at age 19 (tragically late, IMO....but spilled milk, eh?). At the time I started, it truly appeared hopeless. I couldn't keep time, had no sense of rhythm at all, could barely fret the lowest G on the E string. 4 years and countless hours later, I'm still no Wooten.....but I am better than I ever thought I could be. 4 years from now....I look forward to what I'll be capable of. And I know, deep in my heart, that sheer determination and tenacity are pretty much all I need to make up for my late start. And, when I achieve the level of skill I feel is truly "great", I will do ALL I can to tell aspiring musicians of any age that every single person who said they can't is a fool. :)
 
#238
Good for you Majortoby!

I'm refraining from commenting because I really don't have anything new to add to this thread and I promised that I was done. But I'm
Not!

I will say 2 things(hee hee).

My position is the same as yours. But I will also say that one's personal case doesn't make a 'study'. The experts did tons of research. I don't want to insult them by pretending to understand what we're talking almost because of a personal experience that I had.

Some people made the same argument 'for' natural ability citing their own experience.

A lot of people say that I'm musically 'gifted'. But I know that's not true. I put in countless hours. More than most. And in more ways. I still practice the notes on my bass AND the notes, modes and chords in all 30 keys while I make my hour long commute to Bassology everyday. My reaction time is faster on my bass because of what I study while I drive without my bass. But people witness my reaction time and say its natural ability.

Like I said, experts spent millions to research natural ability/talent. I'd rather draw a conclusion based on the research of the experts.

peace,
anthony
 
#239
There's a poem by a lady called Dorothy Law Nolte. This basically sums up my thinking on this subject.

It goes on a bit, but starts off something like this. If a child lives with criticism, he learns to condemn. If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight.

I think added to it should be, a child who lives with music................
 
#240
From the time we're born our brains are sculpted. We're literally born with a bunch of neurons and that number diminishes as we grow until it levels out at some point. Just as a sculptor removes stone chips to reveal the art underneath. That's why it's so much easier for infants and young children to learn. The neurons that map to what they're familiar with, i.e. what they're exposed to, survive while others die out. That's why a baby can learn Chinese just by hanging out in a Chinese-speaking home but it would take me a few years of study and I'd still probably not get the accent right.

Kids raised in a home full of music will be more musically talented when they get older but I think looking at them after they become adults it would be hard to differentiate whether that's due to genetic influences or early exposure. I don't know how you'd account for that in a study since monitoring early exposure would basically come down to trusting parents' memory and reporting of what went on. Not scientifically reliable in my book. Maybe there's a better way, I dunno.

Also don't forget that genetics and experience are linked. We have genes to code for all kinds of things but they don't necessarily get expressed unless the individual has triggering experiences. You can't get type II diabetes unless you have the gene for it, but even if you do and you take care of yourself staying at normal weight, not smoking or having excess stress, your sugar metabolism will look normal your whole life.
 
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