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Natural ability??

#141
Some have argued that Savant Syndrome could be translated as "Natural Ability", in that some people inexplicably display prodigy-level skills in select areas either from birth or after head injuries.

However, it's very rare and these skills, while extremely impressive, usually seem to relate to excellent memory recall - i.e. playing back a piano piece after one listen. Most sources I find are silent on whether the individual in question needed to at least learn the basics of their skills - i.e. learning the keys on the piano first.

So I'm not sure that perfect mimicry equals "Natural Ability".

Still reading up on these topics, though, so take it with a grain of salt. Apparently Savant Syndrome is still not understood by the scientific community either.
 
#143
Everything I've read so far indicates that genes are not pre-programmed with complex traits - In fact, the old idea that genes alone dictate your traits is being overturned as well.

So far this seems to indicate that no, we are not born with a musician or artist in your DNA.

I think the real question here is: Are we all born with the same capacity for memory and concentration? Or are we all generally born with the same baseline and our environments develop these?

I got a lot more reading to do...
 
#145
Here is something interesting regarding genes. My wife has a sister and a brother. 2 of the 3 siblings are adopted. When people look at family photos (without being told the number of adoptees) and are asked 'who's adopted', they generally pick my wife (if any). However she is the only natural kid. I don't see how people get the family resemblance in the brother, but my wife's older sister certainly has more of a family resemblance than my wife does.

I don't know that this story has anything at all to do with this discussion, but I thought I would throw it in.
 
#146
Everyone's probably moved on from this thread, but after reading the latest research, Anthony was correct to state that "Natural Ability" does not exist.

For anyone who disagrees and wants to review the research, I recommend "The Genius In All Of Us" by David Shenk, and "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell. Quite an eye-opener for me!
 
#150
The problem was most of us - myself definitely included - were operating off of old data and views that talent and intelligence were hereditary. New research shows that this is not so, but as with any new idea, it takes time to propagate.

Once a belief takes hold, we form an emotional investment in the idea and it is very difficult to change - it's actually painful to do so. Research shows that mentally, it is much easier to believe something than to disbelieve it.

Basically, you have to swallow your pride and admit the empirical evidence. And remember that new research can always come along and displace the current theories.
 
#154
Hello all, I'm a bit late to this party.

I've been reading through all the posts, it will take a while to read everything, but this is a great thread. My wife and I discuss this topic all the time. She is a very fine musician (piano) as well as a highly skilled surgeon who also does robotic surgery. I am a "late-to-the-party" musician who has a long learning curve in front of him and a shorter "remainder of my life" curve to go with it.....oh well, it's still a fun ride.

We go back and forth the same way this thread has, and ultimately believe (for now) that there are some physical and mental inborn traits that allow some abilities to develop more easily in some people than in others. The hard work/10,000 hour part is intrinsic to the process too. Part of our opinion is colored by being the parents of 16 year old fraternal twin sons, who we used to call our "science experiment" in nature vs nurture!! As sayman says, things change and you have to be open enough to accept new findings (if they're scientifically valid and not junk science...)

I'm also a fan of Gladwell's books, and can also recommend Musicophilia and another one I didn't see anywhere in this thread (did I miss it?) which is "Talent is Overrated" by Geoff Colvin. I have long enjoyed Colvin's writings for Fortune Magazine and others, he's a very good writer and addresses this topic well.

I look forward to reading all the posts and any further discussion on the topic. Ant, I did see you with Victor once at (ugh) The Culture Room a couple of years ago, great show, awful venue if you're an old fart like me, even one who grew up going to concerts in the Fillmore and 70's era...... I do have tickets to see Victor with Bela Fleck at the Lyric Theater this fall!!
 
#155
Ant Wellington said:
I'd be a good politician. But my past and my mouth would keep me from getting elected.

-aw
Click to expand...

If Bill Clinton and George Bush can overcome their pasts, anyone can. The mouth is another matter. :)

There has always been one major sticking point that has kept me from ever running for public office. Some fluke may happen that would result in me winning. Who wants that headache?
 
#156
edmidlifecrisis said:
We go back and forth the same way this thread has, and ultimately believe (for now) that there are some physical and mental inborn traits that allow some abilities to develop more easily in some people than in others. The hard work/10,000 hour part is intrinsic to the process too. Part of our opinion is colored by being the parents of 16 year old fraternal twin sons, who we used to call our "science experiment" in nature vs nurture!! As sayman says, things change and you have to be open enough to accept new findings (if they're scientifically valid and not junk science...)
Click to expand...

This is where we all have a blind spot - we see the results of the effort and not to process that went into the result. Our minds are always looking for patterns ("Patternicity") so we find patterns where some people are seemingly "born gifted" and others are not.

But when the researchers looked closer, they found the environment and hard work that developed these individuals.
No special abilities evident from birth.

The sources I've read state that while some people can be born with genetic differences that may give them an advantage for some endeavors, but this is a far cry from having complex abilities wired into your genes.

Their research also changes the old gene hereditary model, in that we do not directly inherit our genes from our family lines - it's a combination of this and environment. Truthfully, this part is something I'm still trying to understand myself. The sources seem pretty confident of this, though.

So Nature Vs. Nurture is actually more of a combination of Nature/Nurture. They are not separate.

Truthfully, I'm dishing out this information rather ham-handily. Reading the source material is the best way to review this information.
 
#159
Sayman: Google "epigenetics" to learn more about how the environment affects the genes we inherit. I haven't explored the topic in great enough detail to recommend any books, but Google may get you started.

In a nutshell, what your grandma ate for lunch before your mom was born will determine whether or not a gene you inherited was switched on or off when it was used to make you.
 
#160
Octavian said:
Sayman: Google "epigenetics" to learn more about how the environment affects the genes we inherit. I haven't explored the topic in great enough detail to recommend any books, but Google may get you started.

In a nutshell, what your grandma ate for lunch before your mom was born will determine whether or not a gene you inherited was switched on or off when it was used to make you.
Click to expand...

Thanks! My next interest.
 
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