NBD - Chinese made 12-string

[GKon]

Looks cool and I'd love to try one our for a spell but this pic made me chuckle: all the strings kinda crammed in there like that. Saves build cost & all that, I guess.
View attachment 5285003

Yeah, it's kind of a mess! Made me laugh and say out loud "wow, I can't believe that was their design on this".

This was not easily visible on their pics in the ad. Had I seen it, I may have thought twice.
Well, let's see how long it lasts.

 

[Iristone]

Congrats! It seems that the Weifang factories have gone a long way from those Chibsons and Fakenbackers. I regularly see their extended-range style that look like washboards (I might buy one as a Chapman stick), but I'm definitely interested in the coursed style, too.

 

[GKon]

Congrats! It seems that the Weifang factories have gone a long way from those Chibsons and Rickenfakers. I regularly see their extended-range style that look like washboards (I might buy one as a Chapman stick), but I'm definitely interested in the coursed style, too.

I must say, all in all I'm quite happy, and impressed with the overall fit and finish of these two basses. I also just recently got a Lemmy style Rickenfaker which was also put together quite well, although it did need some adjustments to the bridge position because it was ever so slightly off.

 

[GKon]

Wow, those gauges look so random.

Is your 8-string a 34" scale as well? How's the average longevity of wound high G's on it?
EDIT - sorry, I thought I'd read you use a wound treble G on the 8. My pont is/was: even though it exists, don't assume a 12-string set with a wound G is for 34" scale. It may prove to be hard to impossible to have the strings reach the intended pitch, or hard for them to survive long.

I also found this extra-long set, but they're $66 a set. Youch. They also might not be long enough, though.

Looks like I'm in for a bit of an adventure.

 

[Carl Hillman]

Hi folks,

Yesterday, I received a Chinese made 12-string bass that I bought off of eBay. The nice part about that is that it arrived in 5 days rather than 3 months as when you order from AliExpress.
Being a lover of Carlo Robelli basses, I did search the internet to see if there was a CR 12-string for sale, but I didn't see one. That being said, even if one was available, it's a bit out of my current price range at the moment. Hence my purchasing an inexpensive Chinese 12-string.

(As an aside, I find it interesting that many regard Carlo Robellis basses as nothing special, yet the 12-string version has had its value go way up over the years. Anyway, I digress.)

I've only had the chance to unbox it, tune it up, and play it for a few minutes. Here are my initial impressions.

I really like the body shape, color, and binding (more on the binding later). I also REALLY like the headstock shape. I find it interesting, especially with the cutouts, and the way the tuning pegs are mounted. I do hope it can take the added string tension as time goes on.

The neck is WIDE! Widest neck I've got on any bass. That makes sense, though. It doesn't feel bad, but I do notice the extra width. It's got a flat and thin profile, which makes it easy enough to move around on and to play all the strings. Playing all those strings, and playing them well is going to take some getting used to, that's for sure.

When tuning it up, I wasn't sure how 12-strings are typically tuned. I've since found out that the "normal" strings are tuned as normal to EADG, and the two thinner, accompanying strings are tuned one octave higher.
My two thinner strngs are of different gauges. When I tried to tune the thicker E string an octave higher, it seemed like it was putting way too much tension on the string and that it would snap. So I tuned it at the same octave as the normal E string. This makes it too floppy, though.
I did the same with the rest of the thicker of the two accompanying strings. Those are not too floppy.
I'll play around with it and see if I can retune them all an octave higher.

Fret work is good. No buzzing, no sharp ends. However, fret sprout tends to be the norm here in Albuquerque, so I won't be surprised if it rears its ugly head, eventually.

I haven't done a set-up yet, so not sure how the intonation is, but string height seems good enough for now.

It has a Tune-o-matic type bridge. The string retainer is set up in an interesting way in that each ball end on the strings sort of pile one on top of the other, as opposed to a seperate space for each. I understand the why of it, but have never seen that before. I'm not sure if all 12-string basses are set up this way. It seems a bit "just get 'er done", willy-nilly type of engineering LOL!

The pickup selector works well, and has positive engagement. Volume and tone knobs work well (more on those later).

I like the output of the pickups. Clear, powerful, good amount of adjustability, not micorphonic.

All-in-all, I'm happy with it. I'll know more as time goes on and report on my findings, if anyone is interested.

So, regarding the binding, and knobs. In the original advertisement pics (see my first two pictures), the knobs were black, similar to J bass style knobs. I like those a LOT better than the silver knobs it arrived with.
Regarding the binding, the original ad pics show the binding as having 2 thin black lines in the design. The binding on the bass I received only has 1. I know this is a small point but, part of the reason I ordered this particular bass was that I liked the binding in the ad pics, and also the black knobs. I've written to the seller to point these things out and see if they will provide me with the black knobs and if they'll give me a discount in regards to the binding. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

View attachment 5284753 View attachment 5284754 View attachment 5284755 View attachment 5284756 View attachment 5284757 View attachment 5284758 View attachment 5284759 View attachment 5284760 View attachment 5284761 View attachment 5284765

Cool, kind of 'space age' looking...

A nice kidney-shaped coffee table would set it off nicely.

 

[GKon]

I'm a big fan of

Cool, kind of 'space age' looking...

A nice kidney-shaped coffee table would set it off nicely.

I think you're right!

 

[GKon]

I wonder if Aurora strings is an option? I'm a big fan of their strings. Their website mentions that they can make any gauge string one may need. I assume custom lengths shouldn't be an issue. Then again, I've never made strings, so I'm not sure if there is some sort of limit to length when manufacturing them.

 

[FretlessOwl]

I promise this isn't to rain on your parade, but I was also curious so I coincidentally investigated this. If your experience is different, fantastic.

 

[GKon]

I promise this isn't to rain on your parade, but I was also curious so I coincidentally investigated this. If your experience is different, fantastic. View attachment 5285092

You know, it's kind of funny because I'm a fan of Musicvox, but hadn't really looked at them in a while. Your post made me look them up and I just now realized that this bass is definitely a knock-off of the Musicvox Momo shape.
Doh!

As far as scale length, the one I got is 34" scale, so it's not a short scale bass. Also, I had mine within 5 days of ordering, as I mentioned in my op. I ordered on a Sunday, it was shipped from California on Monday, and I had it on Thursday.

As far as the bad hardware. I wouldn't say it's bad. But, I've only had the bass for a day and a half, so I can't comment on how long it will last. ,
I wouldn't say it's unplayable, since I've been playing mine for an hour or so, tonight. I think, once I can get some better strings on it, it will play even better.

I might agree with the "complete lack of understanding of how a 12 string is designed to work" given how all 3 strings for each note sit on a single saddle, rather than seperate saddles, and the way they used a single whole for all of the strings to go through (see my pictures above).

 

[Iristone]

I promise this isn't to rain on your parade, but I was also curious so I coincidentally investigated this. If your experience is different, fantastic. View attachment 5285092

When I look at Weifang guitars, I try to look for those sold by sellers that don't have any counterfeit in their webshop. There are many factories there, some are legit OEM manufacturers, some aren't. The way I do it is not because of quality (at least none of them use olivewood as fake mahogany), but to support ethical local companies instead of knockoffs.

 

[TrustRod]

Boy those strings sure seem messed up. I did a bit of shuffling thinking they were just put on wrong. Here's an alternate stringing with your numbers that seems a bit more sane.

From
E: .95, .60, .40
A: .75, .45, .25
D: .60, .35, .18p
G: .40, .25, .18p

To
95 - 60 - 60
75 - 40 - 40
45 - 25 -25
35 -18 -18

 

[Avigdor]

Nice new bass, congrats!! Certainly a conversation piece

Have you tried tuning the middle string to the fifth? Given you have the gauges for it it might be an interesting experiment to play around with, i.e. EBe AEa DAd GDg? Inspiration might strike and you can always change strings later

I am also intrigued by the concept itself. How does the playing technique work? Finger style may need a lot of work to get consistency in the upper notes, but with a pick up and down strokes would have quite different characteristics, I'd reckon. How does one usually approach this?

 

[Guitalia]

I also found this extra-long set, but they're $66 a set. Youch. They also might not be long enough, though.

Looks like I'm in for a bit of an adventure.

View attachment 5285051

In addition to being pricey, note that they're also for a 6-course bass (two strings per note across octaves). Yours is a 4-course bass (three strings per note across octaves, but see my next post).

 

[Guitalia]

Nice new bass, congrats!! Certainly a conversation piece

Have you tried tuning the middle string to the fifth? Given you have the gauges for it it might be an interesting experiment to play around with, i.e. EBe AEa DAd GDg? Inspiration might strike and you can always change strings later

I am also intrigued by the concept itself. How does the playing technique work? Finger style may need a lot of work to get consistency in the upper notes, but with a pick up and down strokes would have quite different characteristics, I'd reckon. How does one usually approach this?

Great thought! This makes sense. Maybe that's how the bass was tuned when it arrived from eBay.

Tuning the middle strings in fifths would definitely be easier on those strings. It would also make for richer-sounding tones.

And the only downside would be that some chords, if you were to play chords on the bass, would sound weird. Still, the fifth above is always present as an overtone/partial in each note that you play on a stringed instrument. Could be an interesting effect.

(Edit: just remembered noticing long ago that Ravel's Bolero includes sections where a high-pitched instrument is scored to parallel the melody two or three octaves and a fifth above, without omitting the notes that clash with the chord that the orchestra is playing. Clever and unusual.)

Also, concerning the issue of playing technique (pick versus fingers): I'd expect using a pick to work better. Maybe experiment with thinner and thicker picks. Thinner might work best.

 

[B-Mac]

Yes, one saddle for each set of strings. I'll let you know how it intonates when I eventually do a set-up, but I'm sure it'll be "challenging".
There are 12 strings on there. Well, now there are 11, because I snapped one.

You got a real winner. Considering what you paid you can definitely make it work. I own an 8 string, 10 string and 12 sting.

8 and 10 have one fundamental for each set and one octave for each set. 12 has one fundamental for each set and two duplicate octaves for each set. Each set of three strings should not be all different. The bridge is not the correct bridge for a 12 as you can’t intonate properly. You should send it back.

There are clubs here for multi octave basses that you might want to visit.
Here’s davie504 playing a 12 string bass with the correct string set up.

Charles Berthoud playing a 12 string with correct string setup.


Twelve String Club - 12 String Octave - Post em'
The Multi-Course Bass Club
the official 8-String (octave courses) bass club
it appears you rushed into this without doing your homework? The excitement of something new and different can do that. You got a lot of work ahead of you. If you’re ready for it it will be a great learning experience for you.

Should be 8 separate saddles.

12-String Bass Encyclopedia

 

[Muaddibb]

Looks like a Musicvox copy.

 

[Water buffalo]

Thank you! I'm hoping to play it a lot more to see what it's all about.

I also have an 8-string (Carlo Robelli), but this takes a bit more getting used to.

I've owned 3 Carlo Robelli 8 string basses, the double cutaway, silver metalflake model. They are amazing basses. I still own one, the neck was warped so found an imported neck and converted it into a 12 string, however that neck couldn't handle the tension so it's strung with 8 strings.

Eventually, I will build a multi laminated 12 string neck for it.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Boy those strings sure seem messed up. I did a bit of shuffling thinking they were just put on wrong. Here's an alternate stringing with your numbers that seems a bit more sane.

From
E: .95, .60, .40
A: .75, .45, .25
D: .60, .35, .18p
G: .40, .25, .18p

To
95 - 60 - 60
75 - 40 - 40
45 - 25 -25
35 -18 -18

A 060 octave E would be significantly tighter than a 095 low E; the D and G courses would be similarly imbalanced, besides very light overall (low-octave -wise). The A course would be a better match, in comparison.

If both strings in an octave course are wound (plains are denser and tighter than equivalent wounds since they have no gaps), the gauge of the octave string is best selected as roughly half of the lower octave one.
(Per the volume of cylinder formula, one linear inch of, say, a 040 string is 1/4 the volume of a 080 one. Assuming proportional construction and same materials - the reality is possibly not the case, but close enough - this means also 1/4 of the mass, which in turns means same tension when tuned an octave apart.)

In other words, 95/46 - 75/36 - 60/30 - 40/18p would be a better match.

Nice new bass, congrats!! Certainly a conversation piece

Have you tried tuning the middle string to the fifth? Given you have the gauges for it it might be an interesting experiment to play around with, i.e. EBe AEa DAd GDg? Inspiration might strike and you can always change strings later

Great thought! This makes sense. Maybe that's how the bass was tuned when it arrived from eBay.

Tuning the middle strings in fifths would definitely be easier on those strings. It would also make for richer-sounding tones.

And the only downside would be that some chords, if you were to play chords on the bass, would sound weird. Still, the fifth above is always present as an overtone/partial in each note that you play on a stringed instrument. Could be an interesting effect.

(Edit: just remembered noticing long ago that Ravel's Bolero includes sections where a high-pitched instrument is scored to parallel the melody two or three octaves and a fifth above, without omitting the notes that clash with the chord that the orchestra is playing. Clever and unusual.)

To quote myself,
https://www.talkbass.com/posts/28032122/
it's as if the Chinese stock gauges come with the pre-installed option of tuning each course as a 1-5-8 power chord...for which the gauges wouldn't be ideal either, though.
[Oddly enough, the diameters would be good, and not far from equal-tension, for a blues 1-b7-3 fifthless seventh chord! Which I don't recommend, mind you, but it would be interesting, in a Hendrix-at-a-fingertip kind of way.]

Re fifths tuning, IMHE power chords on bass below A don't really sound good.
(The reason is what physioacoustics calls "critical bands" - in a nutshell, even consonant intervals like perfect fifths, come the bass register, turn rough-sounding, with tones cancelling each other, past a certain point.)

What I would suggest, to somebody exploring octave-fifth tuning with their 12-string, is they try the following (slightly adjust to taste)
E2-50, B2-32, E1-105
A2-40, E3-25, A1-80
D3-30, A3-18p, D2-60
G3-20p, D4-13p,* G2-45
^ In practice, the middle string would be tuned a perfect fifth above the octave string (i.e. a perfect twelfth above the low string).
* [the .013p would either be a (hopefully long enough) guitar string, or a custom-made one.]
Alternatively, said middle strings may be replaced with fifths. Starting from the highest course, they'd be respectively D3-30 (5th of G), A2-40 (5th of D), E2-50 (5th of A). For the reasons outlined above, I would recommend against doing it (putting a ~065 B1 = fifth of low E) in the lowest course.


@GKon:
what I meant is that, even though the strings in that all-wound set are the correct length for a 34" bass, the thinnest string(s) may be too fragile for that scale and tuning.
To which propos, three related thoughts:
- I can't find that set on the S.I.T. website (both the steel and nickel 12-string set have plain 018 treble G's). Is it possible they've eventually come to share my concerns, and recently phased out the wound G?
- plain tops have an additional advantage in your case: they're stiffer than wounds (they're all-core, after all) and intonate closer to their lower-octave string, which will make intonation of the single-saddle a better - or a, uh, less worse - compromise;
- in case you try and confirm your dislike of plains, consider tuning the instrument down a whole step, to ddD-ggG-ccC-ffF. It may prove to be the sweet spot.

 

[Guitalia]

- in case you try and confirm your dislike of plains, consider tuning the instrument down a whole step, to ddD-ggG-ccC-ffF. It may prove to be the sweet spot.

Aside from all the other well-reasoned content in HaphAsSard's post, just wanted to echo the suggestion above. Might protect the neck from all the tension it would have to withstand in standard tuning, too.

 

[Bikeguy57]

I'm a life long 4 stringer, so completely ignorant on these octave basses. How would a 12 string be an improvement over 8? What's the point of two upper octave strings?