I'd be looking for a new bridge, but that Headstock is awesome
Yeah, I agree it's pretty bitchin' looking!
I'm going to play it as is for a while after installing new strings, and then take it from there regarding changing things around.
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NBD - Chinese made 12-string
- Thread starter GKon
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- 12 string bass
Yeah, I agree it's pretty bitchin' looking!
I'm going to play it as is for a while after installing new strings, and then take it from there regarding changing things around.
I haven't actually done any mods on these yet, but yes, was investigating bridge alternatives. What they come with is just a 4 string tune-o-matic brutally hacked with a file to add extra slots, so yeah, no fine tuning intonation!
Isn't that why files were invented???
Yes, on a 12 string it’s still 8 saddles as the two octave strings are identical and do not need separate saddles.
@bholder
In case you haven't seen this website, and this posting, here is some excellent 12-string bridge information on the site, and good info for replacement bridge in the posting.
12-String Bass Bridges — 12-String Bass Encyclopedia
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/who-sells-a-12-string-bass-bridge-and-tailpiece.1362860/
In case you haven't seen this website, and this posting, here is some excellent 12-string bridge information on the site, and good info for replacement bridge in the posting.
12-String Bass Bridges — 12-String Bass Encyclopedia
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/who-sells-a-12-string-bass-bridge-and-tailpiece.1362860/
Except, of course, if it's one of these whacky cheap Chinese 12 strings with the octaves different gauges!
That's because they don't know better.
[edit] that's because that particular shop doesn't know better.
I shouldn't group them all with the same incompetence. Eastman is a prime example of incredible quality. Hopefully someday they'll make basses too besides just those them thar geeeee-tahaaaarrr thingies.
Electric - Archtop
I pester them from time to time to get on the stick and make basses!
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It was an import bass neck with a wide enough nut spacing and an extreme overbow in the neck. I felt that it might bge able to support 12 strings, but I was wrong.
Interesingly enough, this GORGEOUS Gretsch
USA CUSTOM SHOP TOM PETERSSON SIGNATURE 12-STRING FALCON™ BASS which costs a mere $12,999.99 (don't get me wrong. I think it's GORGEOUS. Did I mention that already?)
appears to not have individual saddles for the main string, and the octave strings. They look to be riding on the same saddle. Hmmmmm....
G6136B-TP12 Custom Shop Tom Petersson Signature White Falcon™ Bass 12-String with Cadillac Tailpiece, White Lacquer
Here's a video of him playing it. It sounds SO DAMN GOOD! I kept expecting the pointy part of the tail piece to poke him in the wrist, though.
USA CUSTOM SHOP TOM PETERSSON SIGNATURE 12-STRING FALCON™ BASS which costs a mere $12,999.99 (don't get me wrong. I think it's GORGEOUS. Did I mention that already?)
appears to not have individual saddles for the main string, and the octave strings. They look to be riding on the same saddle. Hmmmmm....
G6136B-TP12 Custom Shop Tom Petersson Signature White Falcon™ Bass 12-String with Cadillac Tailpiece, White Lacquer
Here's a video of him playing it. It sounds SO DAMN GOOD! I kept expecting the pointy part of the tail piece to poke him in the wrist, though.
Wrong.
Each string has its own slot and it’s a floating bridge that can be angled similar to many other hollow body and semi-hollow body basses that are intonated the same way.
Do you actually think a $13,000 bass would not be intonatable?
Stop looking for a ‘gotcha’ when you obviously have little idea of what it is you’re trying to say. Your Chinese bass has the wrong bridge, period.
This picture
clearly shows @GKon is absolutely correct.
The Gretsch Petersson 12-string bridge only allows
- spacing adjustment between courses (by screwing each of the saddles up and down the horizontal threaded bar), and,
- (by virtue of it being floating), precise intonation of the two outer low-octave strings.
In other words,
- intonation of the low A and D will have to do. And, more importantly,
- intonation of the treble pairs in each course cannot be independently set.
In fact,
- making the overall saddle spacing be adjustable, by having them able to be screwed left and right, makes individual string slots necessarily circular, all the way around the cylindrical saddle as opposed to notch-shaped - which actually prevents the possibility of pre-cutting the treble strings' slots a ways to the front of the corresponding bass string slot (which would still be not as good as making them independently intonatable, but at least be better than having the point of contact in-line with that of the lower-octave strings)
- intonation of the E-string octaves is going to be even wronger than the others' (the overall slant of the entire bridge places their point of contact further back than that of the low E, which is the opposite of what's needed).
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Actually, I thought it had a fixed bridge, too, and no, I wouldn't put it "beneath" Gretsch to put a fixed bridge on expensive instruments (they do it all the time on guitars, after all).
But I'm pleased to read that they did not "cheap out" in this case, and did the right thing. Kind of. Well, "right-er" would have separate intonation screws for the octave pairs.
And yeah, no doubt, these Chinese ripoffs have the wrong bridge, no doubt about that in any way, shape, or form. What do you expect for a $300 near-counterfeit?
Thanks for the detailed pic, that refreshes my memory. So yes, the critical word there is "independently" - you can "influence" octave pair intonation by filing their slots, but because it's a roller bridge (which I had forgotten until your pic), that means you cannot affect intonation without affecting string height; the only forward / backward adjustment moves affect allthe strings.
So yeah, I didn't expect "better" from Gretsch, just hoped for it. But par for the course. You can see the difference it makes to Tom.
Remember what our own @Bruce Johnson found when researching and developing multi-string coursed bass bridges "for real" - the adjustment for the octaves is quite small, and quite similar across strings, he uses the "fixed slots with fixed octave offsets" approach successfully. Anecdotally, I recently did a build using Brad Lowe's new design (results in his thread here: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/lo...s-guitar-bridges.1579445/page-5#post-27789031) and also found the offset to be far smaller than I had expected. And this was from an old fart like me who was a True Believer in independant intonation for the octaves (still am, but I now see how close it really is). FWIW. YMMV. Substantial penalties for early withdrawal. (ooops, hehe, last disclaimer lolz)
Here's the post I meant to quote showing the offsets after intonation with a strobe tuner...
Absolutely. The treble G, in particular, looks in line with the low G: if - and only if - it is a plain string, it validates the point I made in one of my posts above, that plain trebles have this marginal advantage over wound trebles (in addition to their sturdiness).
The fact that the Gretsch bridge makes such an offset impossible by design, prioritising customisable inter-course [
] spacing, baffles me.So, will an 8-string bridge suffice for intonation (8 saddles), given we have fundamental and octaves twice?
I assume that is our goal.
I think the trick will be to find a bridge and proper gauge strings with a total cost less than the entire instrument.
The purchase is meeting the goals: play; experiment; educate.
I assume that is our goal.
I think the trick will be to find a bridge and proper gauge strings with a total cost less than the entire instrument.
The purchase is meeting the goals: play; experiment; educate.
