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NBD - Chinese made 12-string

Wrong.

Each string has its own slot and it’s a floating bridge that can be angled similar to many other hollow body and semi-hollow body basses that are intonated the same way.

Do you actually think a $13,000 bass would not be intonatable?

Stop looking for a ‘gotcha’ when you obviously have little idea of what it is you’re trying to say. Your Chinese bass has the wrong bridge, period.
Wow, you certainly are a rude one. I'm not looking for a gotcha. I'm just looking around and commenting on what I find, and I'm obviously in the process of learning something new.
There are a lot less nasty ways to explain it to someone than the self agrandizing way you like to come off.


No need for you to further comment on anything I ever post again. Thank you.
 
After a lot of searching online the last two days for a suitable bridge replacement for the 12-string (suitable in regards to doing what it needs to do, as well as being cost effective), I stumbled across this beautiful 8-string bridge designed by Brad Lowe a.k.a. @BTL of Lowe Custom Guitars.
Lowe Custom Guitars 8-string Bass Guitar Bridge - Chrome | Reverb

I wrote to him on his FB page, asking if his 8-string bridge was suitable for a 12-string. He replied that it was not.

I had also asked the same question on the Twelve String Club thread here on TB, where he resonded with the information that the appropriate bridge that should have been on it would be this one:
Chrome,8 Strings Brass Flat Bottom Base Bridge,BM-108CR-XB-1

Looks to be exactly what the doctor ordered. And only $65, making it make sense for a $300 bass that I don't mind experimenting on.

Thanks again, Brad. You are a good man, and have saved the day!
Sung II bass bridge.png
 
Excellent. Please keep us posted on your progress.
I would be interested in trying this one if you have success.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Have we worked out the string gauge requirements?
more precisely... for EADG tuning.
I most certainly will. I am waiting for my new strings to arrive before ordering a different bridge because I'm curious to see just how off the intonation will be with the stock bridge.

I really, really like the powder blue one that you want. That's the one I originally wanted, but changed my mind and got the black one instead.

I'm not sure what the string gurus have come up with regarding gauges for EADG tuning. That being said, every set I found from different manufacturers seemed to be light gauge strings, like these
S-I-T-Strings-Electric-Bass-Power-Steel-12-String-018-095-PSR121895_9111__24286.jpg
 
Looks like a corner cut to me, not a complete misunderstanding. The multi-course instruments work on the principle that each string will have a slightly different pitch. The cheap bridge will have less "predictable" pitch difference, it's less good but not "completely" wrong.
 
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I've got some updates.

The SIT Power Steel strings arrived. I had a doofus moment in that I went outside to check the mail early in the day after seeing the mail lady drive away, saw my neighbor, started chatting, and totally forgot to check the mail.
At 11:30pm I checked the order status and it showed delivered. I couldn't wait, so I ended up staying up till 2:00am stringing, then playing the bass. I am working today, but work swing shift, so I still got plenty of sleep. :)
These are the strings.
S-I-T-Strings-Electric-Bass-Power-Steel-12-String-018-095-PSR121895_9111__24286.jpg


After installing them, here's what I noticed.

First of all, the advertising on the the site mentions that all strings are wound. However, upon opening the box I realised that the .018 G octave strings are plain, which is clearly stated on the packaging.
That's not an issue for me, at all.

It had been pointed out that perhaps the strings would not be long enough to use on the bass. I can happily attest to the fact that they are plenty long, and needed trimming before being installed.
On that note, something to point out is that the string posts for the main strings are not very tall, so it was quite tricky to measure correctly, cut, then wrap to get enough wraps on the post for stability, without the string bottoming out on the post, thus getting jammed up on the tuning post mounting nut. It basically took me quite a few tries on each string to get the correct length. I made sure to take my time because I'm notorious at accidentally cutting strings too short.

Here's an important thing I found with these strings installed.
There is much more tension on the neck as compared to the original strings. If you remember, because of the odd gauges of the original strings, it had 2 strings tuned to the normal note, and one octave string, as opposed to these SIT strings (and all other brands of 12 string strings) having 2 octave strings. With the bass tuned up, it put a noticeable front bow in the neck. I still haven't had a chance to do a set-up, so I can't yet say if the truss rod will take care of it.

I wonder if the SIT Nickel strings are lower tension? I doubt it but, if anyone does know for sure, please share that info. Or of another brand that are lower tension than SIT.

Another difference with installing these strings vs the wonky originals is that the ball ends are bigger, so there is a serious cluster-@$&^ going on at the string retainer by the bridge. Yikes! It actually made me laugh at how absurd it is. At the same time, I do find it oddly beautiful. :wacky: If you notice, the A, D, and G have the main string ball end sitting (mostly) in the hole, and the octave string ball ends piled up behind it. I couldn't get this to happen with the E string due to the thicker diameter of all of the strings. I don't know if this affects the tuneability, or stability of the strings staying in tune. They're still stretching, so I can't comment on that, yet.
411965757_393535689762144_1219488414281022866_n.jpg




Lastly, but not leastly ;)
The most important bit of info I have to share is that, with the extra tension on the neck, the posts of the string retainer started to pull out of the body. At least, I think they did, because I don't remember them being that way previously.
I find it pretty concerning. It would appear that, at the very least, a different string retainer is in order (see the the thread posts above between myself and Brad from Lowe's Custom Guitars regarding an more appropriate string retainer and bridge). Once I do a setup and try out my experiment to see just how off the intonation is due to all three strings sitting on one saddle, I'll then decide whether or not I will also buy the bridge he mentioned. I'm pretty sure I will be.

411686830_327849523461845_5948273917237981705_n.jpg


Once I have time to do a set-up, I'll report back on how the bass handled it.

I'd like to wish everyone happy, and healthy holidays, and a very Merry Christmas to all that celebrate. Cheers!
 
Take a look at the companion tailpiece for that 8 string bridge - separate holes for each string.
Chrome,8 Strings Flat Bottom Base Tail,TS-108CR-XB-17087
Unfortunately, the mounts are wrong. And, there is not enough space to drill more holes in your existing tailpiece.

Early design changes are always awkward, until you hit upon an elegant solution.
You have spacers under the tailpiece to elevate it. Do you have room to stack 2 of those tailpieces?
Is that insane?

Engineering philosophy. There are more solutions than problems.
Stay well.
 
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Early design changes are always awkward, until you hit upon an elegant solution.
You have spacers under the tailpiece to elevate it. Do you have room to stack 2 of those tailpieces?
Is that insane?


Engineering philosophy. There are more solutions than problems.
A separate tailpiece under the stock one is a very good idea!

Something like the bare plate of this 8-string bridge, with saddles removed, could work:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077YGRSCN/
The raised sides could be filed down and the plate given a simple L-shape so as to slide down the horizontal part under the existing bass stopbar, with the ball-stopping section of the new one positioned right behind it. Small guides for routing the strings into the correct path could be added, and those and the bridge screws (and relative holes) would be hidden under the stopbar.


Here's a..."stopgap" solution, while you investigate alternatives:

- loosen all strings
- remove the leftmost treble string from each course entirely
- retune the low strings up, and have their ball ends sit comfortably in their holes
- retune the remaining high strings up, have their ball ends sit to the left of the low-string ones, as neatly as possible, and possibly vertically
- either
--- insert each of the removed trebles from the *front* of the stopbar hole pointing back, obviously with its ball end to the left of the sister treble, and loop it back from under the bar; or
--- alternatively, if the ball end of the installed high string obstructs the hole, put the ball end of the uninstalled one to the left of its sister, at the front of the stopbar, as said, only do not thread the string through the hole at all but pass it over, then under the bar (if possible, have the string pass between the two ball ends of the installed treble+bass string)
- before pulling it toward the headstock and its designated tuner, thread the string into its own ball end, at the front of the stopbar, and have it turn the way it wants when tightening it.

You will then have two ball ends per course at the back, one at the front of the bar, for an overall...still messy, but differently-messy optical effect.
(And yeah, no, I totally don't expect thanks for the above-detailed cr@ppy hack...)
 
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Take a look at the companion tailpiece for that 8 string bridge - separate holes for each string.
Chrome,8 Strings Flat Bottom Base Tail,TS-108CR-XB-17087
Unfortunately, the mounts are wrong. And, there is not enough space to drill more holes in your existing tailpiece.

Early design changes are always awkward, until you hit upon an elegant solution.
You have spacers under the tailpiece to elevate it. Do you have room to stack 2 of those tailpieces?
Is that insane?

Engineering philosophy. There are more solutions than problems.
Stay well.

What do you mean that the mounts are wrong? Are you talking about the existing tailpiece (which yes, I agree, they are), or the companion tailpiece for the new bridge/tailpiece setup
? Ι assume you meant the existing tailpiece.
 
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I just wanted to make clear, given the "interesting" surprises I've found on this 12-string, I've decided to view it as a learning tool. I've been slowly, but surely, working on my bass building and modifying skills.
With the help of everyone here, and specific info by Brad sharing a better bridge and tailpiece, I'm looking forward to making the time to dig into modifying this bass to get it to work well.
I think it's a really good starting point to work off of. The cost of the bass was minimal, espcially that I was given a discount, so I think it's a good place to practice.
 
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What do you mean that the mounts are wrong? Are you talking about the existing tailpiece (which yes, I agree, they are), or the companion tailpiece for the new bridge/tailpiece setup
? Ι assume you meant the existing tailpiece

My ambiguity. My mistake. Wrong is measured on a spectrum.
Your bass has a tailpiece secured with anchors and studs, while the proposed replacement tailpiece is flat bottomed fastened with 4 screws. It is too early to start adding holes into the body.
 
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Here's a..."stopgap" solution, while you investigate alternatives:

- loosen all strings
- remove the leftmost treble string from each course entirely
- retune the low strings up, and have their ball ends sit comfortably in their holes
- retune the remaining high strings up, have their ball ends sit to the left of the low-string ones, as neatly as possible, and possibly vertically
- either
--- insert each of the removed trebles from the *front* of the stopbar hole pointing back, obviously with its ball end to the left of the sister treble, and loop it back from under the bar; or
--- alternatively, if the ball end of the installed high string obstructs the hole, put the ball end of the uninstalled one to the left of its sister, at the front of the stopbar, as said, only do not thread the string through the hole at all but pass it over, then under the bar (if possible, have the string pass between the two ball ends of the installed treble+bass string)
- before pulling it toward the headstock and its designated tuner, thread the string into its own ball end, at the front of the stopbar, and have it turn the way it wants when tightening it.

You will then have two ball ends per course at the back, one at the front of the bar, for an overall...still messy, but differently-messy optical effect.
(And yeah, no, I totally don't expect thanks for the above-detailed cr@ppy hack...)

Once installing the main string throught the hole, it is very difficult to install the other strings, especially as the strings get thicker (E vs G). I did try the method you suggested, but had no success.
Thus, the mish-mosh I ended up with.
 
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My ambiguity. My mistake. Wrong is measured on a spectrum.
Your bass has a tailpiece secured with anchors and studs, while the proposed replacement tailpiece is flat bottomed fastened with 4 screws. It is too early to start adding holes into the body.

I wasn't questioning your use of the word "wrong". I just didn't know if you were referring to the mounts on the existing hardware, or the new hardware I was looking to (possibly) install.
 
Can I just say that I'm enjoying, and deeply appreciate that some of you are getting into this "experiment" with the 12-string, offering suggestions, constructive criticisms, new parts recommendations, and the like.
For me, that is the true spirit of TB, and what I had hoped a thread like this would evolve into.
Thank you all for that, and your spirit of comaraderie. Especially given the odd, and negative take of one of the posters who I promplty ignored, because ain't nobody got time for that! :cool:
140311121928-mxp-what-happened-to-sweet-brown-00000022.jpg
 
The Sung-Il bridge is the industry standard for imported 8-string and 12-string basses. It's been used by Dean, Schecter, ESP, Waterstone, MusicVox, and others.

The only reasons I can think of not to use it is (perhaps) to save a few pennies or (perhaps) it was out of stock when this bass was being built.
 
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