It's not built to my spec if it's sitting in stock. Their policy is fine, but I personally wouldn't order an instrument that they have so little confidence in that they have to sell it "as is", no returns.
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NBD: Kiesel IC5 :-(
- Thread starter Bliff Curton
- Start date
It's not built to my spec if it's sitting in stock. Their policy is fine, but I personally wouldn't order an instrument that they have so little confidence in that they have to sell it "as is", no returns.
I wouldn't order a non-returnable instrument either but I don't think it's a question of Kiesel not having confidence in the quality of their product, it's that it may be hard to resell if it gets returned.
The purpose of the non returnable options is to allow Kiesel to offer some options that may not be popular, but you can still get them it that's what you really want. They shouldn't build anything with a non returnable option if it's going to "in stock". It could be a customer order that never came through on the final deposit, but in that case, I believe they keep the 20% deposit. So, they're getting a bonus on "in stock" items in that case. All they would have to do is add a line to the policy that the no returns policy does not apply to in stock items. But it's their company, they can do whatever works for them.
Exactly.
Or at least honor the satisfaction guarantee.
Yes, Kiesel got the same letters I got:
That the case was opened, request of rebuttle by Kiesel, and final decision in favor of Kiesel.
Yeah man. After pulling that one with the CC company, yours probably just moved to the bottom of the pile.
....
Or at least honor the satisfaction guarantee.
...[/QUOTE]
i missed that bit: 'satisfaction guarantee'? did you mean the blurb on their website? i don't read that as a 'guarantee', but hey, i'm a bass player, not a business attorney. or...is there some other sort of guarantee of which i am not aware?
Or at least honor the satisfaction guarantee.
...[/QUOTE]
i missed that bit: 'satisfaction guarantee'? did you mean the blurb on their website? i don't read that as a 'guarantee', but hey, i'm a bass player, not a business attorney. or...is there some other sort of guarantee of which i am not aware?
Credit card companies generally will favor the purchaser. I think there is more happening than we’re being told. I guess, in the end, don’t buy in stock if it’s marked as “no returns”.
Yes, I think you've really gotten to the core of the issue. While Kiesel is within their rights to put whatever return policy they please on whatever instrument they sell, having certain instruments marked as "no return" (especially on in stock instruments) is a recipe for unhappy customers when mixed with their mail order sales model.
They should really rethink how they handle selling / making instruments that currently can't be returned. The current scheme seems to guarantee unhappy customers, and unhappy customers are the best way to lose future customers. I can't imagine the current model is best for anyone.
DISCLAIMER : I really like Kiesel instruments. I custom ordered a JB5 that I love a bit more than a year ago. I stayed away from option 50s as I'd already thought through the above, and am really surprised that Kiesel would agree to put their customers or themselves in this sort of no win situation.
It should be pretty clear to anyone that there's a real risk buying something sight unseen that is marked "no returns." Sometimes we make mistakes. That's what they are, mistakes. Who is responsible for my mistakes? Me.
I've paid half as much for brand new American-made bases and gotten ten times the level of customer service, plus basses that were perfectly serviceable, and sounded great right off the truck, or out the shop door, but this seems like this will end up being a lesson learned scenario.
I hope it all works out to your eventual satisfaction.
If you hate it, I would just flip it. It is a beauty and I'll bet its sound, no matter what it is, is right up someone's alley
I hope it all works out to your eventual satisfaction.
If you hate it, I would just flip it. It is a beauty and I'll bet its sound, no matter what it is, is right up someone's alley
This thread is super weird. I have purchased expensive basses that sometimes Turn out not to be my thing. That’s the risk. I have never tried to come up with any excuse. I bought it and it didn’t work out. Either I sell it or keep it. Not the manufacturers problem.
It was most certainly not a custom order, according to the OP, however, I'm guessing the "no return on this item" was well listed on their site as was when I bought my Kiesel basses. If you change your mind because it was too expensive or you don't like it, too bad for you. If there is something wrong with it, they better fix it, and I am sure they will. Their policy is clear. I don't like it, but its still clear and I still like their instruments. I may be wrong, but, it seems to me the OP sent the item back for repairs after realizing Kiesel wasn't budging, and then called to cancel the credit card payment. If there is anything not boding well here, its that.
What a bananas thread. Makes for interesting, if not entirely pleasant reading, that's for sure. Some startlingly immature comments made all around, as well. I thought we were better than that, TB!
To me, it sounds like both parties in this discussion have made mistakes. OP, you definitely took a serious chance by buying sight-unseen, and trusting a company's website "guarantee" jargon as anything other than gussied-up advertising. Especially with it so clearly stated that there is a strict no-return policy.
But also, this return policy seems really odd, possibly a little shady, and definitely one that is going to create unhappy situations like this. Assuming the OP has told the truth about his CS experiences (and I have no reason to doubt him on that), Kiesel has handled this situation rather distastefully, although seemingly within their legal rights to do so. And yeah, I can't imagine they are going to go about diagnosing the bass-in-question with any degree of urgency now that the CC company has been involved. Although, again, based on OP's description of the situation, it sounds like they don't particularly believe there to be anything wrong with the bass in the first place, which absolutely does not bode well for a happy outcome of this factory visit.
I don't really see any outcome other than a negative one for OP at this point. Either you'll have to sell the bass, probably at a decent loss, or else put more money into trying to make it more how you want, which may not even be successful. FWIW, I would definitely like to hear some sound clips...
Not that I was likely to ever be in the market for one of their instruments, but there's absolutely zero chance of me giving Kiesel any business now. Despite the buyer's mistakes, there's absolutely no excuse for bad customer service!
To me, it sounds like both parties in this discussion have made mistakes. OP, you definitely took a serious chance by buying sight-unseen, and trusting a company's website "guarantee" jargon as anything other than gussied-up advertising. Especially with it so clearly stated that there is a strict no-return policy.
But also, this return policy seems really odd, possibly a little shady, and definitely one that is going to create unhappy situations like this. Assuming the OP has told the truth about his CS experiences (and I have no reason to doubt him on that), Kiesel has handled this situation rather distastefully, although seemingly within their legal rights to do so. And yeah, I can't imagine they are going to go about diagnosing the bass-in-question with any degree of urgency now that the CC company has been involved. Although, again, based on OP's description of the situation, it sounds like they don't particularly believe there to be anything wrong with the bass in the first place, which absolutely does not bode well for a happy outcome of this factory visit.
I don't really see any outcome other than a negative one for OP at this point. Either you'll have to sell the bass, probably at a decent loss, or else put more money into trying to make it more how you want, which may not even be successful. FWIW, I would definitely like to hear some sound clips...
Not that I was likely to ever be in the market for one of their instruments, but there's absolutely zero chance of me giving Kiesel any business now. Despite the buyer's mistakes, there's absolutely no excuse for bad customer service!
Kiesel touts their ten day return policy. They almost need something like this because they have no showroom presence with the exception of their California showroom. They have certain options that make the instrument non-returnable because they don't want to be stuck with a return on an option that is difficult to sell otherwise. But when the instrument is already in stock, it seems like the non-returnable status is more of a "stick it to the customer" rather than it's a build that they can stand behind. It exists. It's not something that they'll be stuck with any more or any less than if someone buys it from "in stock" since it already exists.
Just for the record, I love Carvin.
I’ve certainly learned my lesson here.
Ive learned more about myself too. When I feel slighted, I become a confrontational excretion sphincter. Which sets me up for failure.
Hey, we all have our own Jungian Shadow that requires personal work.
I wanna thank you guys for making this thread active again, its gotten Kiesel’s attention and I got a message in my email....checking it now...
I’ve certainly learned my lesson here.
Ive learned more about myself too. When I feel slighted, I become a confrontational excretion sphincter. Which sets me up for failure.
Hey, we all have our own Jungian Shadow that requires personal work.
I wanna thank you guys for making this thread active again, its gotten Kiesel’s attention and I got a message in my email....checking it now...
K, they said they can’t reproduce the problems I was having.
They recommended I switch to single coil pickups.
I asked if its possible and how much for them to do the pickup swap for me.
It’ll be funny if I end up loving the sound with Single’s in there.
I’ll have to change my technique as the instrument has no attack or bloom of the note - its just there.
In my research, it seems like this is the trait of Walnut basses - the moment you hit the string, its just sustain; no attack, no bloom, its just immediate.
They recommended I switch to single coil pickups.
I asked if its possible and how much for them to do the pickup swap for me.
It’ll be funny if I end up loving the sound with Single’s in there.
I’ll have to change my technique as the instrument has no attack or bloom of the note - its just there.
In my research, it seems like this is the trait of Walnut basses - the moment you hit the string, its just sustain; no attack, no bloom, its just immediate.
