NBD x2 - Fender American Original Content

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I very much like the Surf Green version of the P-bass.
The AO ‘60s series colours were seemingly a little more exciting than those of the new AVRI II line.
My LPB AO ‘60s P with TI flats and a Klein Epic ‘62 pickup does sound almost as Paul Jackson’s P-bass on the album Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock …

I’d like to post a link to a sample tune I recorded some time ago with it (in that case, however, the bass was sporting LaBella DTF 760FL flatwound strings);

Back to the ‘70s ..

BTW, this is my CAR AO ‘60s J-bass:

 

[Grinderman]

And considering the Custom Shop puts out so many "1957" and "1963" basses with 9.5 radius necks...

I see more FCS basses with 9.5R boards than 7.25R, regardless of the type, model, or year.

I have basses with either and I'd be a liar if I claimed I find it makes a difference to me in how they feel or play.

My only complaint about AO '60s P and J is the dot markers can be excessively dark in color, or somewhat exaggerated. It's a functional and aesthetic concern.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I don't understand why people scoff at these compared to the AVRI line. They are EXACTLY the same minus the modern radius, which is a plus in my book. I owned an AVRI 63 Precision and this feels better.

I wouldn't say they are EXACTLY the same.

First of all, the quality control of the AVRIs was superb, I can't remember ever seeing a really bad one. The QC of the Originals was shockingly poor for an instrument in this price range, and we're not talking about minor flaws but serious stuff like truss rods being installed off-center inside the neck (on a HUGE batch of the P-basses). This combined with the fact that Fender raised the prices significantly from the AVRIs to the Originals is probably the main reason for the Originals' mixed reviews. Some of them really are shockingly poor.

Even if you find a good Original (and to be fair, there are lots of great ones) they're still quite different from the AVRIs. You mentioned the radius but there's also the neck profile, which is perhaps THE most important thing on a bass. I loved the neck profile on some of the AVRI P-basses but I hated the profile of the Originals P-basses. Too deep/chunky for my hands. With the J-basses it's actually the other way around, I prefer the slim profile of the Originals.

Neck profiles are a matter of personal taste of course. But there are other differences between the AVRIs and the Originals too, like the finish. Originals are nitrocellulose on top of polyurethane. The finish on the Originals will never age like a vintage Fender. The AVRIs had a more traditional nitro finish that age beautifully, which is something the Originals will never do. Of course, you can argue that the ultra-thin, flash coat nitro finish on some of the AVRI series aged a little TOO fast. The finish was so fragile that the instruments looked like 50 year old "relics" within 1-2 years of normal use.

The differences will mostly be a matter of taste but they are certainly not EXACTLY the same. Some will prefer the AVRIs, others will prefer the Originals. But the combination of increased prices and a drop in quality control got the Originals off to a bad start and their reputation has never quite recovered.

 

[MrAB4003]

I sold all my other basses and purchased these 2. You can't beat the classics!

I've actually had them for a few weeks, but now they are both fine-tuned machines with the desired strings, setup, etc.

Got the P as a Demo from SW for about 1600, and the Jazz locally for 1400 (!!), so great deals on both and made about 600 selling my other stuff in the process.

Both under 9 lbs, lush, dark rosewood... perfect in every way possible. Chromes on the P, TIs on the J, both setup crazy low with the 9.5 radius. Amazing. What more can you say?

View attachment 5190568

Congrats on your new American Original Fenders OP (and making $600 profit in your sales)! Both are beautiful, especially the Precision!

 

[JRA]

now they are both fine-tuned machines with the desired strings, setup, etc.....What more can you say?

i say, congratulations on your new instruments! they're lovely, very cool!

 

[antfarm]

Looks like like you have all the bas(s)es covered, congratulations!

 

[Mike Vee]

Congrats on your new American Original Fenders OP (and making $600 profit in your sales)! Both are beautiful, especially the Precision!

Bro the precision is just stupid dope

 

[Mike Vee]

I very much like the Surf Green version of the P-bass.
The AO ‘60s series colours were seemingly a little more exciting than those of the new AVRI II line.
My LPB AO ‘60s P with TI flats and a Klein Epic ‘62 pickup does sound almost as Paul Jackson’s P-bass on the album Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock …

View attachment 5190964

I’d like to post a link to a sample tune I recorded some time ago with it (in that case, however, the bass was sporting LaBella DTF 760FL flatwound strings);

Back to the ‘70s ..

BTW, this is my CAR AO ‘60s J-bass:

View attachment 5190973

Beauties. I love the lpb precision especially.

I’m gonna grab the shell pink Stratocaster next.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

I wouldn't say they are EXACTLY the same.

First of all, the quality control of the AVRIs was superb, I can't remember ever seeing a really bad one. The QC of the Originals was shockingly poor for an instrument in this price range, and we're not talking about minor flaws but serious stuff like truss rods being installed off-center inside the neck (on a HUGE batch of the P-basses). This combined with the fact that Fender raised the prices significantly from the AVRIs to the Originals is probably the main reason for the Originals' mixed reviews. Some of them really are shockingly poor.

Even if you find a good Original (and to be fair, there are lots of great ones) they're still quite different from the AVRIs. You mentioned the radius but there's also the neck profile, which is perhaps THE most important thing on a bass. I loved the neck profile on some of the AVRI P-basses but I hated the profile of the Originals P-basses. Too deep/chunky for my hands. With the J-basses it's actually the other way around, I prefer the slim profile of the Originals.

Neck profiles are a matter of personal taste of course. But there are other differences between the AVRIs and the Originals too, like the finish. Originals are nitrocellulose on top of polyurethane. The finish on the Originals will never age like a vintage Fender. The AVRIs had a more traditional nitro finish that age beautifully, which is something the Originals will never do. Of course, you can argue that the ultra-thin, flash coat nitro finish on some of the AVRI series aged a little TOO fast. The finish was so fragile that the instruments looked like 50 year old "relics" within 1-2 years of normal use.

The differences will mostly be a matter of taste but they are certainly not EXACTLY the same. Some will prefer the AVRIs, others will prefer the Originals. But the combination of increased prices and a drop in quality control got the Originals off to a bad start and their reputation has never quite recovered.

They may not be the same but to say that AVRIs are substantially better instruments is something I’ll never understand.
QC declined? And who said so?
I bought two sight unseen .. they are perfect; so if I have to judge your statement I’d have to say that it is rather unsubstantiated.
Nitrocellulose on top of polyurethane is more durable; I don’t like relic’d or aged finishes personally, so, in this respect and according to my personal taste the AOs should be regarded as better instruments if compared to the AVRIs; price went up?
Yes, that of the AVRI II as well .. time passes unfortunately.
In my opinion the blank statement according to which AVRI Fender basses are better than AO basses is not supported by anything really substantial.
Having said that, I’d gladly buy an AVRI Seminole red or sonic blue P bass as I like those colours and the more P-basses I have the happier I feel.
Oh, you know what, they are expensive now!

PS

AO ‘60s P-bass neck is chunky?
Well, that’s another reason to find a nicely priced AVRI one although I don’t have any problems in playing mine and my hands, like my person, are rather small ..

 

[Spupilup]

I was preparing to add to the AO vs. AVRI conversation but it seems the issues of the undercoating and slight differences in neck profiles got covered. I have an AO 50's Tele that I absolutely love more than any of the many guitars that have passed through my hands. The neck of my Tele is fatter than any other Tele I've laid hands on and I think it's perfect. I have a 50's gold top Les Paul reissue that is nowhere near as comfortable. The same can be said of the other Gibsons and PRS's that I own or have owned. I like a big, fat neck, especially if it's a 25.5" length.

Plus, as stated above by Gianni, I appreciate the nitro over poly on my AO. Sure, after over 5 years, the guitar has a few chips missing but it's nothing like some of the Fender series that was released just before the AO's. I'm not interested in a reliced guitar so I don't want my brand new guitar to look 30 years old after just three years.

To the original poster, your AO's look beautiful and I know you will get great satisfaction and enjoyment out of them. A spectacular pair of basses, you did well!

To those who whine about a 9.5 radius being inappropriate on a reissue, or undercoat vs. thin coat, ect, ect, all I can say is if it works for you, great. What works for you may not work for others. Finally, to all those who wish to continue the argument over the validity of the AO line, all I can say is "hates gonna hate."

 

[facetsquared]

I see more FCS basses with 9.5R boards than 7.25R, regardless of the type, model, or year.

I have basses with either and I'd be a liar if I claimed I find it makes a difference to me in how they feel or play.

My only complaint about AO '60s P and J is the dot markers can be excessively dark in color, or somewhat exaggerated. It's a functional and aesthetic concern.

Agree with you on the very dark dot markers - especially the side markers. I’ve lost count of how many times I have wandered one fret off on my Jazz.

 

[Jeff K]

I very much like the Surf Green version of the P-bass.
The AO ‘60s series colours were seemingly a little more exciting than those of the new AVRI II line.
My LPB AO ‘60s P with TI flats and a Klein Epic ‘62 pickup does sound almost as Paul Jackson’s P-bass on the album Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock …

View attachment 5190964

I’d like to post a link to a sample tune I recorded some time ago with it (in that case, however, the bass was sporting LaBella DTF 760FL flatwound strings);

Back to the ‘70s ..

BTW, this is my CAR AO ‘60s J-bass:

View attachment 5190973

Bass sounds KILLER on that sound clip!! I have a '60s AO Jazz in Sunburst, but have never played one of the AO Precisions.

 

[Attym]

Agree with you on the very dark dot markers - especially the side markers. I’ve lost count of how many times I have wandered one fret off on my Jazz.

my only complaint about the vintage basses

 

[Jeff K]

Agree with you on the very dark dot markers - especially the side markers. I’ve lost count of how many times I have wandered one fret off on my Jazz.

I have the same AO '60s Sunburst Jazz as you. I got some lighter side dot stickers and put them on mine. Then a tech friend put a light coat of laquer over them to keep them in place. I can't even feel a difference, and they're SOOO much easier to see now.

 

[Grinderman]

They may not be the same but to say that AVRIs are substantially better instruments is something I’ll never understand.
QC declined? And who said so?
I bought two sight unseen .. they are perfect; so if I have to judge your statement I’d have to say that it is rather unsubstantiated.
Nitrocellulose on top of polyurethane is more durable; I don’t like relic’d or aged finishes personally, so, in this respect and according to my personal taste the AOs should be regarded as better instruments if compared to the AVRIs; price went up?
Yes, that of the AVRI II as well .. time passes unfortunately.
In my opinion the blank statement according to which AVRI Fender basses are better than AO basses is not supported by anything really substantial.
Having said that, I’d gladly buy an AVRI Seminole red or sonic blue P bass as I like those colours and the more P-basses I have the happier I feel.
Oh, you know what, they are expensive now!

PS

AO ‘60s P-bass neck is chunky?
Well, that’s another reason to find a nicely priced AVRI one although I don’t have any problems in playing mine and my hands, like my person, are rather small ..

There are pros and cons to lacquer guitar finishes with plenty of widespread accompanying misconception and mythology.

Beyond classic Fender Blonde and Sunburst finishes or since when Fender custom colors have been a thing the lacquers involved have never been 100% pure nitrocellulose. All the custom colors were automotive lacquers; Duco (nitro) or Lucite (acrylic). Clear top coats were always nitro as far as I'm aware, but Fender didn't always follow through on the standard practice of clear coating on top of solid custom colors. There were pre-CBS Fender P basses that came with nitrocellulose clear lacquer on the neck and a Lucite (acrylic) Olympic White on the body with no clear top coat applied--meaning no nitro on the body at all.

Most pre-CBS Fenders were finished with a base undercoat of "Fullerplast" sealant made by Fuller O'Brien company. Fullerplast is or wasn't lacquer, nitrocellulose, or acrylic. It's polyurethane!



Even aside from the Fullerplast, Automotive lacquers, either nitro Duco or acrylic Lucite, DO NOT BREATH! How we know this: because mass-produced automobiles painted with it between the 1920s to the 1960s didn't rust away even faster than they actually did.

BTW, Fullerton (a place), George Fullerton (a person-Fender employee), and Fullerplast (a material made by Fuller O'Brien) are all coincidental.

 

[Grinderman]

They may not be the same but to say that AVRIs are substantially better instruments is something I’ll never understand.
QC declined? And who said so?
I bought two sight unseen .. they are perfect; so if I have to judge your statement I’d have to say that it is rather unsubstantiated.
Nitrocellulose on top of polyurethane is more durable; I don’t like relic’d or aged finishes personally, so, in this respect and according to my personal taste the AOs should be regarded as better instruments if compared to the AVRIs; price went up?
Yes, that of the AVRI II as well .. time passes unfortunately.
In my opinion the blank statement according to which AVRI Fender basses are better than AO basses is not supported by anything really substantial.
Having said that, I’d gladly buy an AVRI Seminole red or sonic blue P bass as I like those colours and the more P-basses I have the happier I feel.
Oh, you know what, they are expensive now!

PS

AO ‘60s P-bass neck is chunky?
Well, that’s another reason to find a nicely priced AVRI one although I don’t have any problems in playing mine and my hands, like my person, are rather small ..

Part 2: Fender AO 50's P, '60s P, and '60s J necks, from a historically accurate standpoint or standard, are not chunky, not even close. 0.83" at first fret does not add up to a chunky Fender P neck. That hardly even qualifies as a medium profile thickness.

For Fender, historically speaking, 0.82" to 0.79" is thin; around 0.85" is medium heft; 0.88" all the way up to 0.93", and even 0.99" is in the chunky zone.

A 0.88" thick late '50s soft-V P neck, what I have on one of my P basses and actually closer to accurate or vintage correct than FCS's standard 0.925" thick soft-V '57 P neck profile, is quite comfortable in my hand despite not having long fingers.

There are some vintage Fender Jazz necks out there that are apparently 0.76" to 0.78" thick at the 1st fret but those are extremes. My OA '60s Jazz neck is 0.79" thick at 1st fret--that's quite thin.

 

[Grinderman]

Here's an AO '60s Jazz neck with the marker dots replaced. The stock side marker dots are still too dark though. If you study a bunch of pre-CBS vintage basses as examples you'll likely see that the side dots are still relatively quite white in color, much lighter than the side dots on Fender AO '60s.

 

[Grinderman]

Part 2: Fender AO 50's P, '60s P, and '60s J necks, from a historically accurate standpoint or standard, are not chunky, not even close. 0.83" at first fret does not add up to a chunky Fender P neck. That hardly even qualifies as a medium profile thickness.

For Fender, historically speaking, 0.82" to 0.79" is thin; around 0.85" is medium heft; 0.88" all the way up to 0.93", and even 0.99" is in the chunky zone.

A 0.88" thick late '50s soft-V P neck, what I have on one of my P basses and actually closer to accurate or vintage correct than FCS's standard 0.925" thick soft-V '57 P neck profile, is quite comfortable in my hand despite not having long fingers.

There are some vintage Fender Jazz necks out there that are apparently 0.76" to 0.78" thick at the 1st fret but those are extremes. My OA '60s Jazz neck is 0.79" thick at 1st fret--that's quite thin.

P.S. Prior Fender American Vintage Series basses (not to be confused with Fender American Vintage Reissue before that) and subsequent or Fender American Vintage II basses have the same 1st fret profile thicknesses as Fender American Original series basses.

 

[Grinderman]

Agree with you on the very dark dot markers - especially the side markers. I’ve lost count of how many times I have wandered one fret off on my Jazz.

The dark side markers are even worse from functional, aesthetic, and historical/vintage accuracy standpoints.

For example, here's a legitimate pre-CBS 1959 Fender P bass. Notice how pale, bright, or white the top and side dot markers are.

This isn't an anomaly or a case of the dot markers having been altered or replaced. If you study plenty of other pre-CBS examples you'll find that this is correct.

I anyone wants a high-quality neck made just like this, down to the correct marker dots, Musikraft makes them made to order.

 

[Grinderman]

This is my 7.25" R rosewood slab P neck from Musikraft for comparison.