Right? And the food and drink won't be free, either. Will they be feeding OP? Paying for OP's gas/parking?
I like the 'have them rent a PA' idea above too.
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Need help setting someone straight - your POV please
- Thread starter CanaDave
- Start date
I like the 'have them rent a PA' idea above too.
I don't play for free. For any reason. My time is valuable and life is short.
It comes down to time and work involved for me. Lugging a PA and setting it up would be the deal killer. Giving up a Saturday to play a private party (for free) where I know no one is another deal killer. I have too much going on to donate much time to charity, let alone to people having a party to celebrate a house renovation. On the other hand, I regularly play a small brewpub in our town for free beer, food, and tips. I can see the register from where I play and they absolutely would not be able to afford to have music if they were paying even sub-union scale. We play what we want and set-up is minimal, so I am not a purist on this.
So, he thinks that moving and setting up a drum kit is more work than moving and setting up a bass rig PLUS the PA?
It's kinda sad that his ego needs the constant stroking of playing live gigs so much that he'll do it for free.
In my current band the members know that if they want to book a gig where we supply the PA then there needs to be some decent $$$$$ for me. If PA and sound person is supplied I'll play for very little money, but even then I don't like doing so as it reduces the pay that working musicians need. It's not because I need the money as I have the highest paid day job out of all of us, but I'm not working for 6-7 hours or more (pack vehicle, setup, play, pack down, unpack vehicle) for peanuts.
It's kinda sad that his ego needs the constant stroking of playing live gigs so much that he'll do it for free.
In my current band the members know that if they want to book a gig where we supply the PA then there needs to be some decent $$$$$ for me. If PA and sound person is supplied I'll play for very little money, but even then I don't like doing so as it reduces the pay that working musicians need. It's not because I need the money as I have the highest paid day job out of all of us, but I'm not working for 6-7 hours or more (pack vehicle, setup, play, pack down, unpack vehicle) for peanuts.
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Strange to think that 10 years ago, that statement wouldn’t even be in a musician’s vocabulary. That just makes me sad for our world today.
I'll gladly play for free, if I like the event and there's free drinks.
However, playing for free means that someone comes round to my house and drives me to the event, where I'll find my bass sitting on stage, all wired up and ready to go - I'll put it back into the stand after playing and someone will drive me back.
Having to do any of this on my own means I'll charge.
However, playing for free means that someone comes round to my house and drives me to the event, where I'll find my bass sitting on stage, all wired up and ready to go - I'll put it back into the stand after playing and someone will drive me back.
Having to do any of this on my own means I'll charge.
Sounds like your buddy is a bit selfish and arrogant at best and a Jack ass at a little better.
He is trying to bully you. That is a bad tactic IMO.
You are being totally normal and fair. I got a message for your friend.
He is trying to bully you. That is a bad tactic IMO.
You are being totally normal and fair. I got a message for your friend.
If he's really your best friend you just need to talk it out to a mutually agreeable conclusion.
It's okay that he has different reasons for playing than you do.
It's okay that he has different reasons for playing than you do.
And it's also important to set your boundaries, clearly.
You two might be good friends but maybe you're not so great band members since both of your priorities and values seem to be different.
Exactly...
Union scale is a floor, not a ceiling. Most professional bands charge more than scale.
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I don't think "setting him straight" is right response. He's doing what is good for him, but doesn't work for you. No arguments against playing for free are likely to change his mind or his expectation that others should feel the same way. It's time for you to part ways musically while you can still remain friends.
This doesn't sound like good friends at all...
OP: From the sound of his text to you, "straightening him out" is not gonna happen, and besides, that's kind of a superior attitude to begin with. The entire relationship seems rather unworkable.
Great point. I used to golf. I paid a lot of money to golf, and never got a dime back. A backyard party is not a gig that will take work away from any serious pro musician.
Some of the attitudes here make me lol.
Great point. I used to golf. I paid a lot of money to golf, and never got a dime back. A backyard party is not a gig that will take work away from any serious pro musician.
Some of the attitudes here make me lol.
Our 4 piece will play for $150 each for a bar gig, but usually get more. The privates are usually $400 each. $100 each is 80's pricing IMO. I'd rather stay home.
This has nothing to do with music for me. If you can't respect my wishes then it's time to have distance. Good friend or not lack of respect is unacceptable maybe or rather hopefully once he sees you're serious about this issue he'll come around but if not you got off cheap other than a few hurt feelings which will easily mend.
Well, showing us a message of his and then saying he goes on to insult you is meaningless, until we get to see the entire conversation. Afterall, I'd have to assume that you're the bad guy in this situation. You don't want to play for free, which is understandable, but he doesn't care. Do you need the money? Would you be content with just doing some private jams to fulfill your music playing needs?
You can't expect your friend to try and get gigs that pay well, when that's not at all what he's setting out to do. In that case he is modifying his ideals and his behavior, to please you, and maybe the others in the band. You could maybe try and get gigs yourself. Is there a reason why you don't seek out gigs? I would imagine if this guy really would play for free, then he surely wouldn't mind if YOU got some gigs for the band, which also pay well.
Chances are, you won't get any good paying gigs. You don't wanna work for free, but your friend doesn't see himself, or you, as professional musicians. You don't have to be a virtuoso, but you can't expect anyone to give you any money, unless you can provide a consistent and agreed upon service.
No matter what other musicians say, these sort of issues need to be addressed on an individual level. Else I'd be working as a carpenter now, and expect to be paid the minimum rate for carpenters in my area, even though I have no qualifications at all, and don't even see myself as a professional carpenter.
You can't expect your friend to try and get gigs that pay well, when that's not at all what he's setting out to do. In that case he is modifying his ideals and his behavior, to please you, and maybe the others in the band. You could maybe try and get gigs yourself. Is there a reason why you don't seek out gigs? I would imagine if this guy really would play for free, then he surely wouldn't mind if YOU got some gigs for the band, which also pay well.
Chances are, you won't get any good paying gigs. You don't wanna work for free, but your friend doesn't see himself, or you, as professional musicians. You don't have to be a virtuoso, but you can't expect anyone to give you any money, unless you can provide a consistent and agreed upon service.
No matter what other musicians say, these sort of issues need to be addressed on an individual level. Else I'd be working as a carpenter now, and expect to be paid the minimum rate for carpenters in my area, even though I have no qualifications at all, and don't even see myself as a professional carpenter.
Most gigs I’ve played have been for free, or nearly free. Hell, had one gig where the venue wanted to charge us, the band, because they didn’t make enough money at the door. These were all originals bands/gigs though.
These days I don’t play for free unless there’s something else I’m getting, like entrance into the festival & vip area, plus food & drinks, or something. I’ll play an hour set for that exchange.
These days I don’t play for free unless there’s something else I’m getting, like entrance into the festival & vip area, plus food & drinks, or something. I’ll play an hour set for that exchange.
