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Need it louder. Guitar players super loud.
- Thread starter Doug Bright
- Start date
And most bass amps have volume knobs, no need to be loud just because your rig is big and beautiful
so by all means go big!
Didn't read through all the pages, but I just ask our guitar player to turn down, even though it always annoys guitar players. I don't believe anyone enjoys a loud AF band. I'm a musician and I don't. Time to have some talks cause you shouldn't need a 212 for indoor shows unless the room is huge IMO.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,053
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- 221,028
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I have a good friend who is an outstanding keyboard player, played for about 10 years in a loud but very popular regional band, they were making real money as players. He developed serious hearing issues along with tinnitus, bad enough that it affects his every day life as well as his sleep. He can no longer play music (except quietly and with heavy duty hearing protection). Hearing aids are not a solution (and make things worse), the damage is permanent. I've known the guy since college, really sad to see this happen to a great guy and player.
Here's a representative video from the days I provided sound for the band (late 80's - early 90's):
Last edited:
Yeah, the RG in the band I was in years ago offed his top of the line Monster Mesa rectifier after finding out none of the three bands he was in could handle it.
; )
One of my personal reasons for avoiding hearing aids (for now) is that I feel they can potentially make things worse as they amplify the areas of greatest loss, hence, potentially worsening things in the long run.
drumvsbass
Commercial User
- Aug 20, 2011
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- I work for Long and McQuade Musical Instruments Canada in Sales.
shwa....These have volume controls, the problem is even with one of them is that people hear with their eyes and automatically think you're going to be loud. I use SVT's because I love the sound and the punch, I use a variety of cabs with them.
Something for the OP to think about, SVT's are only 300 watt heads but have the rep of being Marshal tamers because of the speakers. Incidentally early SVT's were supposed to be played with both cabs, they were only rated at 240 WRMS. They have 30 watt speakers.
I haven't used this whole set up for 20 years.
I was only going to put in a thumbnail but I guess size matter in this thread.
View attachment 4980827
Yeesh, tough crowd.
To the OP: you just need more speaker area. Whether you want to do that with a second matched 112, or a 4ohm 212, or a 410... you just need to get some more air moving, and take advantage of your head's wattage capabilities. My vote is the matched cabs, that way you can ditch one when you get old and boring
And yeah, grab some earplugs but if you're having fun don't quit the band.
I gotta laugh at the deluge of "quit the band, it's too loud!" comments. If y'all are as old as you sound, you probably grew up hauling tube amps and 810 cabs down basement stairs for rehearsal every week. 9 times out of 10 a single 12 won't keep up with a heavy handed drummer in a rock setting. He's not standing next to a jet plane and hey, isn't rock and roll supposed to be a little dangerous anyway?
To the OP: you just need more speaker area. Whether you want to do that with a second matched 112, or a 4ohm 212, or a 410... you just need to get some more air moving, and take advantage of your head's wattage capabilities. My vote is the matched cabs, that way you can ditch one when you get old and boring
And yeah, grab some earplugs but if you're having fun don't quit the band.I gotta laugh at the deluge of "quit the band, it's too loud!" comments. If y'all are as old as you sound, you probably grew up hauling tube amps and 810 cabs down basement stairs for rehearsal every week. 9 times out of 10 a single 12 won't keep up with a heavy handed drummer in a rock setting. He's not standing next to a jet plane and hey, isn't rock and roll supposed to be a little dangerous anyway?
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,053
- 5
- 221,028
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Some of us may indeed be older, more experienced and maybe have the benefit of hindsight. In my case, I had the benefit of others hindsight and protected my ears through 40 years of touring pro audio. With MY benefit of hindsight I'm sure glad I listened to my touring elders rather than got disrespectfully snarky about them being "old".
No disrespect intended- just a little ribbing intended to point out that there's probably more room between "too loud for a small cabinet" and "too loud to stick around," than the posts here would suggest.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,053
- 5
- 221,028
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
One you have one band member that is too loud, adding more power to other instruments is just plain idiocy. The solution starts with the guitarist (or whoever it is) that is too loud turning down. Any other answer is a one way ticket to hearing damage and a band that noone will want to come and see.
How many people do you want to leave your next gig because your band is too loud?
Do you want to be deaf when you're old?
How many people do you want to leave your next gig because your band is too loud?
Do you want to be deaf when you're old?
I found a photo of a gig where the drummer was playing his Arbiter Flats (sorry for the thing blocking the view).
If the members are open to the conversation, start mixing yourselves. Tracks always need room to speak. Everyone compromises something for the better of the sound.
Drums:
Just the drums in a room isn't what makes it on the album. The drummer can look at Evans EQ pads or something similar to tame the kick. Something that tames those basketball sounding mids in the 350-400 range and lets the guitar fill in. Tea towels as already suggested will also help. Somewhere in a YouTube video Eric Valentine shows a piece of leather taped to the snare head that acts as a natural gate. On the hit, the leather flies up and then it falls back down and deadens the snare. The goal is to get the drum sound tuned and create room in the sonic landscape for everyone else. Easy with a mixer and EQ, harder on the raw drums. My brother used Evans or Remo rings on the toms for dampening, but he also has a controlled touch. A lighter touch lets the drums speak better. I played with a different drummer who broke cymbals every year and my left ear is still mad at me about the bell on his Zildjian K ride 25 years ago.
Guitars:
Hi-pass that thing or at least roll off the lows. You said you were playing blues. Stylistically, you are probably filling out the low end and he doesn't need the bottom end from his amp. If he's a true guitarist, he'll fight you on it, but give it a shot. It's just like asking a keyboard player to sit on his left hand to stop fighting for the same sonic space. If he is still too bright or too loud, the previously mentioned gobo is a good idea. Sanction him off to his own space since those high frequencies are easier to tame than the lows.
Bass:
As previously brought up, mids are your friend. However, when mixing the articulation is usually brought up in the 1K-1.5K area to get the finger noise and note definition to shine through without a ton more overall volume. If you're running flats, you might need something in the 800hz range. Your Tone Hammer mid is 1K at the top of the range, but if you're already using it for something else you may have to play with something else. A little drive can help as well. The TH has a baked in rise at the low-end and a bit of a taper off at the top. At least the THDI pedal does. The EQ points are the same so I'm assuming the pre/eq is common among the line.
All of that said, you are asking a lot of a single twelve, especially if it's on the ground. But I would still start with the carving out sonic areas and then add cone area if you want to stick with it.
Just a few more things to ponder.
-Matthew
Drums:
Just the drums in a room isn't what makes it on the album. The drummer can look at Evans EQ pads or something similar to tame the kick. Something that tames those basketball sounding mids in the 350-400 range and lets the guitar fill in. Tea towels as already suggested will also help. Somewhere in a YouTube video Eric Valentine shows a piece of leather taped to the snare head that acts as a natural gate. On the hit, the leather flies up and then it falls back down and deadens the snare. The goal is to get the drum sound tuned and create room in the sonic landscape for everyone else. Easy with a mixer and EQ, harder on the raw drums. My brother used Evans or Remo rings on the toms for dampening, but he also has a controlled touch. A lighter touch lets the drums speak better. I played with a different drummer who broke cymbals every year and my left ear is still mad at me about the bell on his Zildjian K ride 25 years ago.
Guitars:
Hi-pass that thing or at least roll off the lows. You said you were playing blues. Stylistically, you are probably filling out the low end and he doesn't need the bottom end from his amp. If he's a true guitarist, he'll fight you on it, but give it a shot. It's just like asking a keyboard player to sit on his left hand to stop fighting for the same sonic space. If he is still too bright or too loud, the previously mentioned gobo is a good idea. Sanction him off to his own space since those high frequencies are easier to tame than the lows.
Bass:
As previously brought up, mids are your friend. However, when mixing the articulation is usually brought up in the 1K-1.5K area to get the finger noise and note definition to shine through without a ton more overall volume. If you're running flats, you might need something in the 800hz range. Your Tone Hammer mid is 1K at the top of the range, but if you're already using it for something else you may have to play with something else. A little drive can help as well. The TH has a baked in rise at the low-end and a bit of a taper off at the top. At least the THDI pedal does. The EQ points are the same so I'm assuming the pre/eq is common among the line.
All of that said, you are asking a lot of a single twelve, especially if it's on the ground. But I would still start with the carving out sonic areas and then add cone area if you want to stick with it.
Just a few more things to ponder.
-Matthew
That is quite a punchline, "you are asking a lot of a single twelve"...
; )
A single good quality 15 is in my experience minimum level and perfect with acoustic drums, it and whatever the guitarist's have can then dial in to the EXPRESSION RANGE of the drummer. Dampening rings and such are best used on the guitar and bass strings (kidding) in my opinion, and let the drummer adjust those as well, it is best to let the drums and the drummer breathe. : )
For about $10.00USD you can buy a set of side cutters that will cut speaker wire, guitar patch cords and guitar strings. This offers a few options in silencing a too-loud guitarist.
