Need it louder. Guitar players super loud.

[funkmaster p]

It is just absolutely no fun getting guitars rammed down your throat for the whole gig. I would much rather work with less technically advanced players that have more discipline over their stage volume. Yes, you can get a more powerful amp and bigger speakers, but you are matching someone else's obnoxious nature.

Your partnership with these people will limit the amount of venues you can play. Also, your hearing is a health issue.

 

[agedhorse]

I mean, I can’t dispute that and I’d likely make a similar decision if I were in your shoes. But that’s very different than what goes on around this forum, in terms of the constant bad advice to quit or fire someone every time something that can be solved with a simple conversation comes up.

Aside from the brash comments, IF talking it through doesn't help than there's only three choices left... wear ear plugs, "fire" the offending player, or find another group of players to work with.

I made my decision because I wanted to remain relevant in this industry as I get older. I am in the age group where hearing issues become more common, and many of my touring buddies do wish that they had taken better care of their hearing back in the good 'ol days because there's nothing more embarrassing (and challenging) than a sound guy who needs to wear hearing aids. The time to protect your ears is when you are young... just sanin'

Speaking of later in one's career, I just heard from one of my former union stage hand employees who left years ago to enter the touring world. She has just retired after 27 years on the road with Disney Theatrical. Her last position was the senior automated rigging tech supervisor (department head) for about 7 years with Moulin Rouge. That's a serious ~45 weeks a year on the road. She always protected her ears, you need to hear every little sound, every warning sign in that job.

 

[jtg]

2 12s or 15s vertically is perfectly reasonably for a conventional outfit. I propose that if your speakers are of adequate quality and properly directed and you're not playing metal you shouldn't need more than 200 or 300 watts capacity, and almost certainly most of that is headroom. Everyone should have their amps pointed more or less at them so, for instance, the guitar isn't beaming everyone but the guitarist. This goes for you too. A 1x12 pointed at your feet sends your mids and highs to the other folks while you fight indistinct rumble with more volume, mids, and highs - just like the guitarist. Everyone should play together at a musical volume with dynamics and a coherent group sound. Yes, this may mean making the drums and amps move some air, but within reason. If everyone is just trying to get off on their own sound it's not a band, it's a circle jerk. I third the suggestion that you go against the grain and turn down as they turn up. If nobody notices, you're not playing with musicians. Take a powder. If they ask you to turn up, it's an opportunity for a convo.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Can’t give you numbers in db but I can tell you that for successful venues where I gig it’s a real thing. One is a brewery with live music 3x/week outside in the warm months, and sometimes multi-band festivals. As a result of complaints early on, the venue reached an agreement with the town on sound levels. At the start of every set, the manager goes out with a sound meter. I’d the band exceeds the threshold they are told to turn down. If they give him problems over the evening, they are not asked back. I am also good friends with a woman whose venue hosts a weekly jam. She has told me directly that when the music gets too loud, patrons leave, and her staff complains. People in bands have to recognize that when they were playing in public, it’s very unpleasant for the audience if the music is too loud. It’s really pretty simple, when people go out, they like to listen to music, but they also like to be able to talk to the people that they are with, and they like to be able to talk to their servers when it’s time to order food or drinks. As often it’s not, it’s the guitar players who are the problem. Big surprise, ha?

Agree

Most bands that play at smaller venues and bars forget, unless the night is billed as a concert featuring your band, you are there to perform a service. You are an addition, like a salad or an order of fries. Not the whole meal. Therefore you need to perform the function you were hired for. If that includes playing at a certain volume to make the night pleasurable for all involved, that is what you are being paid for.

 

[Jeff Scott]

I think that some combination of Schroeder 410L's/PL's and one of these heads could lead to your gu!+@r!$+$ re-evaluating their life choices:

View attachment 4980113

Especially the pink baffle one.

 

[Pontiac Thrasher]

I run an Aguilar tone hammer 700 and a single 112 Aguilar 8ohm cab.
This band that I just joined practices at such a high volume but I can't hear the detail in my playing that I would prefer.
The Aguilar cab is rear ported.
I'm considering a new 4ohm cab so that I can get the full 700 Watts out of the amp.
I do own a second 112 8ohm cab but I hate to have to schlep two cabs and an amp to every rehearsal.
Will a single 4 ohm cab make a big difference? Would a front port vs rear Port make a big difference.
Suggestions welcome.

This is what I did, and it works, send about 1450 watts into two 18's and two 15's loaded with JBL's, run the 18's clean and the 15's obnoxious, it will sound great, and your guitarist's looks on their faces will be permanently altered.

 

[Hawk256]

Putting aside the possible hearing damage issue, a single 12 isn't going to move enough air for even lower volume, rock bands I have been in the past. A single 15 still wasn't really enough. Two 15s will work in almost any situation (with the right wattage of course). If all else fails bring out an 8 x 10 cab (again with the right wattage) and you will be the one having to turn down. I don't see a lot of benefit in changing your amp either, it should be plenty powerful enough.

 

[drumvsbass]

The drummer is always the first culprit in the volume wars.
The second is some combination of too much gain, not enough mids, and all tube guitar heads with more than 50w.
But, then the bassist who walks in with the SVT and two 810's... they're the real jerk in the equation. But you gotta understand, we were pushed there by other peoples hands, 100 watt Marshalls, kick drums with PA support, and a total lack of trust in the FOH sound tech. That's what brought us to 'I'll bring my own damn PA' ideology.

 

[2F/2F]

Instead of getting yourself louder, get the guitar quieter. Adding more volume on top of excessive volume will make the band sound worse. Doing what I suggested will make the band sound better. If they're people who don't want to take steps to make the band sound better, then you're well off the mark by wanting to play with them at all.

 

[jeff62]

One speaker of anything isn’t enough cone space to help you. You at least need to go with another 8ohm cabinet or switch to a 2x12. Personally, I have 3 1x12’s for flexibility so I can use one for low volume, two when it’s a bit loud and all three if it’s going to be rockin. Of course, the amp needs to handle a 2ohm load to handle all three cabs.

 

[Slevage]

I sometimes need 2-12’s, and I don’t play with any bands that play excessively loud on stage. In my younger days, it was a 360, Marshall, and Leslie in a 12’ x 15’ room. My hearing has been compromised.

I strongly suggest you find a band that doesn’t need to rehearse at performance volume. (Musical maturity is a skill).

 

[No Malarky]

 

[Eminor3rd]

Ignore everyone who’s saying “quit,” Yeesh.

There’s no way we can tell if your band is “too loud,” but a single 1x12 is definitely not enough for a typical rock setting. If a second 1x12 still isn’t enough, you should probably move to a 4x10. Achievable volume is mostly a function of number/size of speakers; think of wattage requirements as “do I have enough wattage to drive my speakers” instead of “is this wattage loud enough.” The additional speaker area of the 4x10 will make a much larger difference than the extra watts into the same two 12s. You might not even notice the latter, to be honest.

 

[lermgalieu]

Ignore everyone who’s saying “quit,” Yeesh.

There’s no way we can tell if your band is “too loud,” but a single 1x12 is definitely not enough for a typical rock setting. If a second 1x12 still isn’t enough, you should probably move to a 4x10. Achievable volume is mostly a function of number/size of speakers; think of wattage requirements as “do I have enough wattage to drive my speakers” instead of “is this wattage loud enough.” The additional speaker area of the 4x10 will make a much larger difference than the extra watts into the same two 12s. You might not even notice the latter, to be honest.

Thank you. If it’s a rock band, a 12 won’t even keep up with “reasonable” rock guitar. Those saying to quit are reflecting their own experiences and frustrations. It’s always going to be a challenge to hear detail in your playing because you are likely right next to your amp. Get more speaker and/or get it up higher. Wear earplugs. Assuming it’s rock (or similarly loud guitar genre) and not cocktail music.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Will a single 4 ohm cab make a big difference?

Depends on the cab configuration. A 4 ohm 112 is unlikely to be noticeably different than the 8 ohm 112 & definitely not as much as using the second 112.
A 4 ohm 2x12 or 4x10 would make a difference. As far as that goes, an 8 ohm multi-speaker cabinet (2x10, 4x10, 2x12, 2x15) would make a difference.

Would a front port vs rear Port make a big difference?

Unlikely anything you could hear. A front port is less likely to get restricted, because most players won’t put the front of their cabinet up against an object, but will put the back of their cabinet against something. Location of the port won’t change whether you hear more or less detail.

 

[brianrost]

Luckily I play mostly with people close to my own age (i.e. 50s-60s-70s) and they have adjusted their stage volumes as they got older. Guys who used to bring Fender Super Reverbs (40W, 4-10) or Twin Reverbs (100w, 2-12) are bringing Princetons (15W, 1-10) or Deluxe Reverbs (20W, 1-12).

I haven't played with anybody using a stack for at least 35 years. I haven't used a bass stack (other than provided backline at gigs) myself since 1980 when I sold my Fender Bassman 4-12 monster.

That means I can get by on most gigs with a single 1-12 and two of them if I need to be louder. My amps top out at around 400W and I have been wearing earplugs for over 30 years.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

"I need to be louder" is almost always the same thing as "I need more cabs", not "I need more watts". You will need more wattage to support the additional cabs, but within small amounts of gain, pumping more wattage into the same single cab that you've been using is a recipe for blowing a speaker while trying to be heard.

 

[Guitalia]

This is what I did, and it works, send about 1450 watts into two 18's and two 15's loaded with JBL's, run the 18's clean and the 15's obnoxious, it will sound great, and your guitarist's looks on their faces will be permanently altered. View attachment 4980166

Those windows behind the backline suggest that the gig was at a restaurant or club in a strip mall. Max capacity 150 seats? Less? I hope you guys had enough firepower.

 

[ELG60]

Especially the pink baffle one.

Ahem . . . That's fuchsia, sir!

And to join the overwhelming din (pardon the pun) I'd probably bring a pair of shooting muffs to the next practice. My ears ring constantly. It's not fun.

 

[FullumMusic]

"I need to be louder" is almost always the same thing as "I need more cabs", not "I need more watts". You will need more wattage to support the additional cabs, but within small amounts of gain, pumping more wattage into the same single cab that you've been using is a recipe for blowing a speaker while trying to be heard.

In some ways, an additional cab = more watts, if you run them in parallel. It’s like a 2-for-1 bonus. Running two 8 ohm cabs in parallel means 4 ohms, which means the head will be putting out higher wattage. More power AND more surface are to push more air.

Damn. Now I want another 8 ohm 1x12 to go with the one I have, that I already can’t turn up more than 2 ticks on my Bullhead 0.5K master volume. Apartment life.