Need some help with a few questions. 4 string player moving to 5 string... maybe?

[Solude]

TL : DR
What are your preferred 5 string bass string and nut spacings? Which pickup type likes the low B best? Which amp has the best loop for plugging a modeler into the Return?



I've been a 4 string player moving to a 5 and need some help narrowing the list of my options related to and not related to that

Background, I play a Yamaha BB (P type) with a 63 Vintage or QP Precision depending on the season through Helix Native out to monitors. In Helix it's a Darkglass B7K/Compressor frequency crossover parallel split into an Ampeg SVT-4 and finally an Ampeg SVT410HLF IR. I'm primarily a finger style or pick player and nearly always play sitting.

Now as to where I want to go. Let's just say this is going to get weird

I have issues with shifting horizontally and reach to the low strings as I move up the neck. Imagine a line from the nut on the low E to the highest fret on G to picture where my ring finger can reach. My spread and reach at the nut are not issues.

I had originally thought to restring to BEAD using the B as a glorified thumb rest to bring the EAD down into reach. But now I'm thinking a 5 string may be better since it still drops the strings down without dropping the G and the string spacing at the bridge is now preference and not fixed at the typically 19mm most 4 strings have.

Alright all that out of the way. For pick and finger style players which string spacing do you prefer and how thick are your fingers? And on the other end, how tight is too tight for nut width? Is there a pickup type, P/J/SR/HH etc. that "hears" that low B better than others? Also which body styles are most balanced while sitting with a strap but letting your leg take most of the weight?

Semi related I'm thinking the biggest upgrade I can make otherwise is going out to a 12" combo or amp+cab through it's effects loop return instead of monitors. That said, who makes a ~200W amp with a known good effects loop for this use? When I last had a "real" amp it was a 200W 15" combo and it never got played above 9 o'clock so my concern is about the effect loop quality not brute output. If it ends up being a 100W amp, so be it.

Thanks to all who respond

 

[bigtone23]

There is a LOT of discussion on this topic here at TB. As a 5 guy, I will offer my $.02...

BEAD is great for the terminally stubborn 4 string guy or to try out and access the lower notes without buying another bass. However, as I learned with my experiment with BEAD is that you do lose the G. If you learn to play 5, you can then just play the 5 all night and not have to switch back and forth, if that's a concern at all.

Wider spacing can keep the feel more consistent when you switch from 4 to 5 on the fly-especially for your picking/plucking hand. However, some really like the narrow spacing for the fretting hand, as it does slightly tighten up the string spacing on the neck. All in all, I prefer the spacing to be 18-19mm, but have adapted to the MM 17.5mm spacing, too. Any thing more narrow is rather crunched feeling. The only way to know is to play some basses and see what works for you.

I find the low B is mostly accentuated or attenuated by the build and scale of the instrument, some have stronger Bs than others, and it's not just a simple recipe. 35" scale basses to have a proclivity to stronger Bs, but so do 34" scale Stingrays... Pickups do matter. As great as they are on 4 string, I find the split coil P type pickups to be not as good with 5ers. The tonality of the split P is too low mid forward/smooth top sounding, which isn't always helpful for making that B string pop. Pickups that have more extended bandwidth work great: Jazz bass pickups, soapbars, MM humbuckers, etc...

 

[Solude]

On my four I'd be ok with narrower spacing, somebody please

Thanks for the MM spacing spec. As it turns out the Ray35 has been calling me for years now Is the spec the same for the Sterling import line?

 

[Riff Ranger]

There is a LOT of discussion on this topic here at TB. As a 5 guy, I will offer my $.02...

BEAD is great for the terminally stubborn 4 string guy or to try out and access the lower notes without buying another bass. However, as I learned with my experiment with BEAD is that you do lose the G. If you learn to play 5, you can then just play the 5 all night and not have to switch back and forth, if that's a concern at all.

Wider spacing can keep the feel more consistent when you switch from 4 to 5 on the fly-especially for your picking/plucking hand. However, some really like the narrow spacing for the fretting hand, as it does slightly tighten up the string spacing on the neck. All in all, I prefer the spacing to be 18-19mm, but have adapted to the MM 17.5mm spacing, too. Any thing more narrow is rather crunched feeling. The only way to know is to play some basses and see what works for you.

I find the low B is mostly accentuated or attenuated by the build and scale of the instrument, some have stronger Bs than others, and it's not just a simple recipe. 35" scale basses to have a proclivity to stronger Bs, but so do 34" scale Stingrays... Pickups do matter. As great as they are on 4 string, I find the split coil P type pickups to be not as good with 5ers. The tonality of the split P is too low mid forward/smooth top sounding, which isn't always helpful for making that B string pop. Pickups that have more extended bandwidth work great: Jazz bass pickups, soapbars, MM humbuckers, etc...

I generally agree. I haven’t noticed enough of a difference between 34” and 35” to recommend one or the other, but I also prefer low tunings and low tension. I really thought I wanted a 5-string Precision but tried three different pickups in the one I eventually got before determining I just couldn’t get my sound out of it (primarily aggressive pick style). I’ve had much more success getting an aggressive Precision-ish sound way down low with a reverse-P and a bit of bridge J blended in. The ATK in my current avatar image has always done way down low very well with its Stingray-ish pickup. Those looking more for thump than attack and clarity might find a P5 suits them just fine, though.

 

[MrLenny1]

My 5 strings have 17-18 mm string spacing at bridge.
34" scale. Some Bartolini & Aero PU's all sound
good with new strings.

 

[Geri O]

I don’t know how open you are to simply getting a 5 and adapting to it as opposed to adapting an instrument to you. Obviously, it should work both ways, but there doesn’t appear to much willingness on your part to adapt to an instrument. Please forgive if I’m being too forward and if I’m wrong.

I have pretty short stubby fingers. Yet I’ve managed to adapt quite nicely, if I say so myself, to both 17mm spacing (MM Stingray 5s) and 18mm spacing (Mike Lull 5s, both 34” and 35” scales). I buy basses in general based on how they sound and I adapt to the instrument because I want that sound. So far, I’ve been successful by working at practicing scales and exercises while getting used to the instrument(s). Nothing fancy, complicated, or fast at first, and if at all. This process could take a few days, but I’ve never put a time limit on this process.

Agsin, not to be critical, but I sense a lot of over-thinking in your search for the ideal 5-string bass. The first question is, how much or how badly do you really want to play 5-string instruments? You can decide that now, and if you find later on that 5-strings aren’t your thing, that’s okay, too.
And please don’t listen to the infantile 4-vs-5-strings diatribes going either way found in other occasional posts. Your playing deserves a more serious approach to this process than reading through a bunch of kindergarten chicken-crap-throwing contests over the string count.

Sincerely, good luck with this process.

 

[Solude]

Obviously, it should work both ways, but there doesn’t appear to much willingness on your part to adapt to an instrument. Please forgive if I’m being too forward and if I’m wrong.

You're not wrong but you're missing the point. I have a handicap so the less the instrument limits my playing the better.

But I don't have the decades of 5 string experience to draw from, that I do for 4 string, as to what actually works so I reach out to those that have.

 

[Geri O]

You're not wrong but you're missing the point. I have a handicap so the less the instrument limits my playing the better.

But I don't have the decades of 5 string experience to draw from, that I do for 4 string as to what actually works so I reach out to those that have.

Understand, and sorry, yes, I missed that. Still coming to from the NYE festivities (not alcohol-related - just old….).

Apologies.

 

[Solude]

No worries. At my age new years ends at 10

 

[bigtone23]

On my four I'd be ok with narrower spacing, somebody please

Thanks for the MM spacing spec. As it turns out the Ray35 has been calling me for years now Is the spec the same for the Sterling import line?

The Sterling imports follow the MM spec closely. The Ray35 is a killer instrument. It doesn't need any hardware or electronic upgrades to be more like it's domestic Musicman version.
My MM 5 is a US SUB from 2004. It was a steal of a deal (Pre C19 price hikes) and I couldn't pass it up. I have been a Fender 5 player for over 2 decades, so I am very used to the wide spacing, so much so that I would stumble with anything narrow. After playing it for a couple practices and a gig, it became comfortable and I was glad to have it. Love that Stingray tone!
I also have a 91 Peavey Dynabass 5 string. It has 16.5mm spacing. It was a bigger steal than the SUB. I am also sort of used to it. However, when switching from other 5s and 4s on the fly, the narrow spacing is quite apparent.

 

[rogerbmiller]

I am generally neutral on spec measurements for my 5 strings. I think there is so much more that goes into making a 5 string playable that just spacing and nut width. One must also consider radius, neck stiffness balance, how well you can dial the action, fret size, etc.

in my experience with all basses and certainly 5 strings is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. As a result I own 5ers that have 20mm spacing and other that are 16.5. Same variation with nut width.

I think the key is to play a bunch and see what feels good to you and don’t start out with a hang up on spec metrics.

This approach and philosophy are what work for me. YMMV.

 

[Solude]

The hope here is to find one that would replace my number 1 so adjusting between wouldn't be a concern. I take it though that if you could you'd stay in that 18mm range? I play like 0 chords in the first position so 43mm v 45mm might be more about string gauge? I imagine a set of 50s would appreciate the extra space where a 40s could go either way.

For those suggesting I get out and play, I have but here the bass wall has a lot of empty spaces and 5s pfft forget about it It's about putting on notices and sniping one when they come in.

 

[GreyBeard]

On my four I'd be ok with narrower spacing, somebody please

Thanks for the MM spacing spec. As it turns out the Ray35 has been calling me for years now Is the spec the same for the Sterling import line?

The Sterling Ray35 is similar to the SR5's of about 10 years ago. I have a 1995 SR5 that while I have other basses, I always go back to my old SR5 after the honey moon of a new bass is over. I'm at that point now. As far as the best 5 string? It really depends on the type of sound you are after. The Fender Player Plus 5 string basses are really nice if you are after that traditional Fender Jazz tone. As for that StingRay tone, The Sterling Ray35 H or HH will get you there. I've owned an HH but the neck pup got in my way and the additional tone settings didn't really do all that much for me. I'm a committed SR5 player.

 

[Solude]

That's my thought as well. I'd rather the parallel, series switch... single coil might become a mute

As luck has it the Stingray 35 ash and black models are available. So far it sits in that goldilock zone for spacing and pickup type. Be interesting to hear from other groups.

For those asking I play alternative through metal but mostly on the alternative side. Think Tool's always on bass tone where the gain is varied by need.

 

[JW56789]

Well, let's see here . . . .

Background, I play a Yamaha BB (P type) with a 63 Vintage or QP Precision depending on the season through Helix Native out to monitors. In Helix it's a Darkglass B7K/Compressor frequency crossover parallel split into an Ampeg SVT-4 and finally an Ampeg SVT410HLF IR. I'm primarily a finger style or pick player and nearly always play sitting.

I'd think a five with a similar sized spacing and neck feel would be the place to start.

I have issues with shifting horizontally and reach to the low strings as I move up the neck. Imagine a line from the nut on the low E to the highest fret on G to picture where my ring finger can reach. My spread and reach at the nut are not issues.

See, this is one of the great advantages of a five (or six) if you prefer to play across the fingerboard. This is why I transitioned to fives in the late 80's. On a four, I'd start a run HERE then have to slide up or down to THERE to finish the thought. Hated it.

I had originally thought to restring to BEAD using the B as a glorified thumb rest to bring the EAD down into reach. But now I'm thinking a 5 string may be better since it still drops the strings down without dropping the G and the string spacing at the bridge is now preference and not fixed at the typically 19mm most 4 strings have.

Keep walking, BEAD is a bad idea as a 'stopgap' to a five. You have to think of a five-string bass and a four-string bass as TWO DIFFERENT INSTRUMENTS. That 'gee, it's just a bass with an extra string (or thumb rest!)' will get you nowhere fast. . . . except to ditch it and buy another four. They are very different instruments ! A four strung BEAD is fine and works for some cats just great, but it's not a five and lacks the advantages of a five. And buying a five just to pick up an extra five low notes is just asking for trouble.

Alright all that out of the way. For pick and finger style players which string spacing do you prefer and how thick are your fingers? And on the other end, how tight is too tight for nut width? Is there a pickup type, P/J/SR/HH etc. that "hears" that low B better than others? Also which body styles are most balanced while sitting with a strap but letting your leg take most of the weight?

Only you can answer to spacing. For me, something similar to most fours is fine, maybe a little skinnier if it's a bass I like. I'm far more concerned about the neck contour, as I prefer flatter to rounder: Remember, you.ve got a wider fingerboard to reach around. I've no favorite five string pickups, but I do prefer harder woods in the body and neck: In my experience the harder woods (in a Fender-ish style axe, I prefer ash body and maple neck, even if it gets a little heavy, you can hear it) tend to conjure those low C's and D's better, and just keep things tight up and down the fingerboard. As far as balance, the usual shapes where the upper horn sticks out to right around the 12th fret tend to balance best. Get something with lighter keys if you can.

Semi related I'm thinking the biggest upgrade I can make otherwise is going out to a 12" combo or amp+cab through it's effects loop return instead of monitors. That said, who makes a ~200W amp with a known good effects loop for this use? When I last had a "real" amp it was a 200W 15" combo and it never got played above 9 o'clock so my concern is about the effect loop quality not brute output. If it ends up being a 100W amp, so be it.

For now, I'd keep what I have. Fives need 'more amp' to push those low notes, and whatever you buy, having an amp you already know will ease the transition.

All the Best,

JW

 

[A9X]

Keep walking, BEAD is a bad idea as a 'stopgap' to a five. You have to think of a five-string bass and a four-string bass as TWO DIFFERENT INSTRUMENTS. That 'gee, it's just a bass with an extra string (or thumb rest!)' will get you nowhere fast. . . . except to ditch it and buy another four. They are very different instruments !

Quoted for truth.
I mainly play 6s, but I agree with JWilson that feel is most important. My strong preference is for an Ibanez SR neck and shape with a good HB. I like the 16.5 spacing and the flatter neck radius. I'm of average height and my fingers are neither thick nor thin. I can finger pick a guitar easily enough.

 

[Killing Floor]

I trust the manufacturer/luthier to specify. I have been playing over 4 decades, much of that professionally. I have no idea about my width or spacing. I am aware it can be measured. I play 4 and 5 string bass, Tele/Strat and Les Paul and violin. I know intuitively they are all different widths because I can tell the difference in my left hand. But I’ve always been attracted to the ways instruments sound.
Play it or weigh it.

 

[magyk8ball]

Thats a lot of open ended questions….. a lot at play in that post.
i prefer 19mm string spacing, than my 4&5 string basses feel closer to the same when i play.
Id look at a sub for your monitors if you want more low end. Maybe even a hx stomp or something, and a sub to drop any latency your current interface and helix native may have (theoretically).

 

[g-dude]

The first five string that I’ve really liked is my G&L L2500 series 750, with .75” (19mm) spacing.

It just feels…right.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Easy. Active eq with humbuckers. You need control or it will lack the little punch you need.