Never Again!

[Ellery]

Our BL received a call from a booking company in Ca inviting us to play a well known venue that has locations in most of the US top 10 markets. We accepted the invite and booked the gig, anticipating the opportunity to play the venue.

When the date got nearer we received the load in and stage time details, which indicated that we were on a bill with two other bands, and playing the 2nd set. They also sent us a batch of tickets to sell for the show and linked us to a ticket purchase site to encourage fans to pre purchase on line and save a couple of bucks. We were also told that we had to sell a certain number of tickets to "break even" on the show and that the 'house' and 'sound mixer' had to be paid from those ticket sales also. My question was how were they going to divide the money when 3 bands were selling tickets both in advance and at the door, (which was never answered).

Now, realizing this is a pay to play venue, I discussed it with the band and we decided to give it a chance just to see how it all panned out only because it is a high profile venue. So we played the gig. We'd sold all our tickets and the place was packed with familiar faces of our fans along with fans of the other bands. And despite the first band opening the show with a painfully loud set of death metal and nearly clearing the room, the crowd came back for our set of Americana and we had a good time playing for a very enthusiastic audience. The bar was as busy as it could handle.

After our set we quickly rolled our gear off stage so the next band could get started and I loaded out and headed home. All in all it felt like a very successful gig.

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money, even though we had a full house and the bar obviously made good money that night. Turned out that the booking company also took 50% of the ticket sales along with the house and sound guy taking their cut. WTH?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pay to Play venues are in business to support themselves and not the musicians. For the bands it's a total BS deal. We hauled our gear there, loaded in, set up in a flash, played a great set to a full house, loaded out, and hauled it home covered with sweat, and someone made lots of money, but we had to pay them to settle the bottom line. Kinda makes me feel like I got taken in an internet scam. If these venues can't afford to pay the bands to play then why are they in the music presentation business to begin with? Oh I know...to sell lots of booze. Hard language inserted here.

Never Again.

#1: Pay to play is always a ripoff
#2: Death metal is vastly superior to Americana; the masses are just too dumb to know it

 

[soulman969]

In all my years of playing I can only recall being presented with a pay to play option once. We laughed at how much of a scam it was and walked away. Playing "for exposure" is bad enough but IMHO to pay for the "privilege" of getting some exposure is a joke to rope wannabe "rock stars" into taking all of the risk out of promoting.

 

[obimark]

Our BL received a call from a booking company in Ca inviting us to play a well known venue that has locations in most of the US top 10 markets. We accepted the invite and booked the gig, anticipating the opportunity to play the venue.

When the date got nearer we received the load in and stage time details, which indicated that we were on a bill with two other bands, and playing the 2nd set. They also sent us a batch of tickets to sell for the show and linked us to a ticket purchase site to encourage fans to pre purchase on line and save a couple of bucks. We were also told that we had to sell a certain number of tickets to "break even" on the show and that the 'house' and 'sound mixer' had to be paid from those ticket sales also. My question was how were they going to divide the money when 3 bands were selling tickets both in advance and at the door, (which was never answered).

Now, realizing this is a pay to play venue, I discussed it with the band and we decided to give it a chance just to see how it all panned out only because it is a high profile venue. So we played the gig. We'd sold all our tickets and the place was packed with familiar faces of our fans along with fans of the other bands. And despite the first band opening the show with a painfully loud set of death metal and nearly clearing the room, the crowd came back for our set of Americana and we had a good time playing for a very enthusiastic audience. The bar was as busy as it could handle.

After our set we quickly rolled our gear off stage so the next band could get started and I loaded out and headed home. All in all it felt like a very successful gig.

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money, even though we had a full house and the bar obviously made good money that night. Turned out that the booking company also took 50% of the ticket sales along with the house and sound guy taking their cut. WTH?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pay to Play venues are in business to support themselves and not the musicians. For the bands it's a total BS deal. We hauled our gear there, loaded in, set up in a flash, played a great set to a full house, loaded out, and hauled it home covered with sweat, and someone made lots of money, but we had to pay them to settle the bottom line. Kinda makes me feel like I got taken in an internet scam. If these venues can't afford to pay the bands to play then why are they in the music presentation business to begin with? Oh I know...to sell lots of booze. Hard language inserted here.

Never Again.

READ the fine print. All of it. Always.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Got snookered at a well known club in Roanoke, VA (has something to do with coffee) where our new band at the time was going to play. Lead singer's wife worked there and that's how we got the gig. They hired us on a "split the door" arrangement and we had someone at the door counting bodies along with their bouncer. We had a good showing and a lot of friends from work showed up.

At the end of the night we got very little ($75 split 5 ways) because the owner said we couldn't count his regulars because they would be here anyway - surprising how many "regulars" showed up! A total of 5 o the regulars sat at the bar to drink while the rest of them came into the main room to watch and listen to us. Then they docked us again because some of our folks left before midnight (was a week-night gig). Didn't make a big deal about it because the lead singer asked us not to. He was afraid they might fire his wife. So we smiled, took our $15 each, loaded up our gear and left - lesson learned. We never played there again although we had plenty of opportunity to do so.

So, we learned our lesson and didn't do anymore "split the door" gigs. If you do take a "split the door" gig, be sure to get in writing who counts and who doesn't and don't take any of that crap about, "well a bunch of folks left early, so they don't count". If the place didn't refund them the cover charge, then they count. That's what a cover charge is all about.

 

[ptg]

So sorry you got treated this way but not sorry that I am no longer gigging. And always make sure the BL gives each member a copy of the contract.

When we were in our early 20's we got an offer to p2p from a very high-profile establishment. We politely declined. True, we never made it as rock stars but even as desperate as we were to be famous, we refused to pay someone to play after all of the writing, rehearsals and personal sacrifices we made for the band.

Now go out and have some fun playing music!

 

[CryingBass]

Our BL received a call from a booking company in Ca inviting us to play a well known venue that has locations in most of the US top 10 markets. We accepted the invite and booked the gig, anticipating the opportunity to play the venue.

When the date got nearer we received the load in and stage time details, which indicated that we were on a bill with two other bands, and playing the 2nd set. They also sent us a batch of tickets to sell for the show and linked us to a ticket purchase site to encourage fans to pre purchase on line and save a couple of bucks. We were also told that we had to sell a certain number of tickets to "break even" on the show and that the 'house' and 'sound mixer' had to be paid from those ticket sales also. My question was how were they going to divide the money when 3 bands were selling tickets both in advance and at the door, (which was never answered).

Now, realizing this is a pay to play venue, I discussed it with the band and we decided to give it a chance just to see how it all panned out only because it is a high profile venue. So we played the gig. We'd sold all our tickets and the place was packed with familiar faces of our fans along with fans of the other bands. And despite the first band opening the show with a painfully loud set of death metal and nearly clearing the room, the crowd came back for our set of Americana and we had a good time playing for a very enthusiastic audience. The bar was as busy as it could handle.

After our set we quickly rolled our gear off stage so the next band could get started and I loaded out and headed home. All in all it felt like a very successful gig.

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money, even though we had a full house and the bar obviously made good money that night. Turned out that the booking company also took 50% of the ticket sales along with the house and sound guy taking their cut. WTH?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pay to Play venues are in business to support themselves and not the musicians. For the bands it's a total BS deal. We hauled our gear there, loaded in, set up in a flash, played a great set to a full house, loaded out, and hauled it home covered with sweat, and someone made lots of money, but we had to pay them to settle the bottom line. Kinda makes me feel like I got taken in an internet scam. If these venues can't afford to pay the bands to play then why are they in the music presentation business to begin with? Oh I know...to sell lots of booze. Hard language inserted here.

Never Again.

If ever there was a reason to swear on TB - this is it!

 

[ruju]

I joined a band a few years back. After two rehearsals of mostly original songs and maybe two or three covers they contacted me about one of these pay to play gigs.

Reading the contract sent to me via email it basically said we had to sell a certain about of pre-door tickets to break even and no guarantee of payment for playing.

I declined and tried to explain to the band it was a complete scam. They found a replacement for me and played the gig anyway.

I was told by the guitar player afterwards that the gig went horribly and they ended up owing quite a bit of money as well.

These pay to play promoters are leaches making money off the dreams of young rockstar wannabes. Quite sad really..

 

[dan1952]

I never did pay to play, but did get hooked into playing "an artist showcase" for one unscrupulous booking agent. Basically the hotel got 3 bands to play on a Sunday night for free; theoretically there were tto be several other booking agencies represented, along with buyers for a couple of hotel chains, fairs, etc...nope, just free entertainment for the usual Sunday night hookers and salesmen-on-the-road-away-from-wife-types. Fool me once...

 

[Kmonk]

BL should have known all the details before agreeing to play.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Our BL received a call from a booking company in Ca inviting us to play a well known venue that has locations in most of the US top 10 markets. We accepted the invite and booked the gig, anticipating the opportunity to play the venue.

When the date got nearer we received the load in and stage time details, which indicated that we were on a bill with two other bands, and playing the 2nd set. They also sent us a batch of tickets to sell for the show and linked us to a ticket purchase site to encourage fans to pre purchase on line and save a couple of bucks. We were also told that we had to sell a certain number of tickets to "break even" on the show and that the 'house' and 'sound mixer' had to be paid from those ticket sales also. My question was how were they going to divide the money when 3 bands were selling tickets both in advance and at the door, (which was never answered).

Now, realizing this is a pay to play venue, I discussed it with the band and we decided to give it a chance just to see how it all panned out only because it is a high profile venue. So we played the gig. We'd sold all our tickets and the place was packed with familiar faces of our fans along with fans of the other bands. And despite the first band opening the show with a painfully loud set of death metal and nearly clearing the room, the crowd came back for our set of Americana and we had a good time playing for a very enthusiastic audience. The bar was as busy as it could handle.

After our set we quickly rolled our gear off stage so the next band could get started and I loaded out and headed home. All in all it felt like a very successful gig.

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money, even though we had a full house and the bar obviously made good money that night. Turned out that the booking company also took 50% of the ticket sales along with the house and sound guy taking their cut. WTH?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pay to Play venues are in business to support themselves and not the musicians. For the bands it's a total BS deal. We hauled our gear there, loaded in, set up in a flash, played a great set to a full house, loaded out, and hauled it home covered with sweat, and someone made lots of money, but we had to pay them to settle the bottom line. Kinda makes me feel like I got taken in an internet scam. If these venues can't afford to pay the bands to play then why are they in the music presentation business to begin with? Oh I know...to sell lots of booze. Hard language inserted here.

Never Again.

Well, I never..... really. I’ve never played at a pay to play venue and never will. I have done some promotional gigs, but dang few of those for over 50 years of gigging. Maybe 5 or 6 tops.

 

[micguy]

One of the things I like about playing as a volunteer st churches is there is absolutely no financial skullduggery going on.

 

[Basshappi]

Pay to Play needs to be killed with fire!

 

[IamGroot]

Even the Super Bowl is pay-to-play now. I think such an arrangement would only make sense for a new act trying to gain exposure quickly, like the stuff seen on television.

"Even the Super Bowl is pay-to-play now"
Not sure what this means,

 

[mikeswals]

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money,

I would NOT have paid them one red cent! if you sold all of your tickets, you part was done, then YOU got ripped off. Them asking for more $ out of pocket would have gotten the finger from me.

 

[creaturegods]

I'm all for eclectic lineups at shows but if you're in an Americana band and you're booked with a death metal band that are not friends of yours, that in itself should be a massive red flag. Any promoter with a lick of common sense or decency would know that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Our BL received a call from a booking company in Ca inviting us to play a well known venue that has locations in most of the US top 10 markets. We accepted the invite and booked the gig, anticipating the opportunity to play the venue.

When the date got nearer we received the load in and stage time details, which indicated that we were on a bill with two other bands, and playing the 2nd set. They also sent us a batch of tickets to sell for the show and linked us to a ticket purchase site to encourage fans to pre purchase on line and save a couple of bucks. We were also told that we had to sell a certain number of tickets to "break even" on the show and that the 'house' and 'sound mixer' had to be paid from those ticket sales also. My question was how were they going to divide the money when 3 bands were selling tickets both in advance and at the door, (which was never answered).

Now, realizing this is a pay to play venue, I discussed it with the band and we decided to give it a chance just to see how it all panned out only because it is a high profile venue. So we played the gig. We'd sold all our tickets and the place was packed with familiar faces of our fans along with fans of the other bands. And despite the first band opening the show with a painfully loud set of death metal and nearly clearing the room, the crowd came back for our set of Americana and we had a good time playing for a very enthusiastic audience. The bar was as busy as it could handle.

After our set we quickly rolled our gear off stage so the next band could get started and I loaded out and headed home. All in all it felt like a very successful gig.

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money, even though we had a full house and the bar obviously made good money that night. Turned out that the booking company also took 50% of the ticket sales along with the house and sound guy taking their cut. WTH?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pay to Play venues are in business to support themselves and not the musicians. For the bands it's a total BS deal. We hauled our gear there, loaded in, set up in a flash, played a great set to a full house, loaded out, and hauled it home covered with sweat, and someone made lots of money, but we had to pay them to settle the bottom line. Kinda makes me feel like I got taken in an internet scam. If these venues can't afford to pay the bands to play then why are they in the music presentation business to begin with? Oh I know...to sell lots of booze. Hard language inserted here.

Never Again.

Yeah, that's why I stopped playing at the whiskey a gogo, and a few others. Same thing. They demand 800-1200 up front, and hand you tickets to sell to make your cut back. And, your left trying to get some of your money back by busting your butt to fill their club. It's soooo stupid. "Play for the exposure" they say. Bull. "Play to make us money" is more like it. The only people ever really there are friends of the bands, and who you sold tickets to. And, they have 4 band shows every night. I'm in the wrong business...for real.

 

[Giffro]

That’s when you excuse yourself to go to the car to write out the check...

Then get chased by The Good Ol' Boys..loll

 

[Big Hoss]

Never done a pay to play venue. Not going to either. We play pretty cheap I must admin but then again, we are a small time band of middle aged fat guys and invalids, literally my guitarist is on permaenent disability and can't hack putting in more than about 3 hours before he needs a good long rest...

We have played the right parties (close friends etc...) for costs and food / drinks. I.E. they pay the gas etc... to get us there, feed us, keep us hydrated (none of us drink alcohol with any regularity any more...) and, if the party is right, we'll play... We did one for a graduation last week, for a Santa Fe High School student... That one was a just keep us in gatorade deal...

I guess when you don't want to, or have to make your living playing, and would be just as happy jamming in the garage with friends, you can afford to be picky about the situations you play...

 

[JGbassman]

If your "bill" is under 500 bucks, I wouldn't worry too much about paying them. It's a small claims deal and probably not worth their time to sue the band over it. If they do, have your business (aka the band) dissolve and let them chase the dust of that matter.

I'm sure you foolishly signed a contract, which should have had all of the information lined out. If it didn't, you told them, "I'm going to come work for you, you charge me what you want to."

Lots to be learned here.

Always check out reviews of the booking agency, and don't go into a financial (no matter how romantic it feels) rabbit hole without at least an idea how deep it is.

You were played, and showed the ameture side of your business plan.

But don't worry, there will be three more bands in there next week getting played the same.

I've worked with artists and professionals over the years, and bigger venues with ticket sales are always a gamble for someone unless the bill has some good headlining acts. Just try and keep the gamble away from your band. A good quality contract goes a long way.

 

[lownote67]

Our BL received a call from a booking company in Ca inviting us to play a well known venue that has locations in most of the US top 10 markets. We accepted the invite and booked the gig, anticipating the opportunity to play the venue.

When the date got nearer we received the load in and stage time details, which indicated that we were on a bill with two other bands, and playing the 2nd set. They also sent us a batch of tickets to sell for the show and linked us to a ticket purchase site to encourage fans to pre purchase on line and save a couple of bucks. We were also told that we had to sell a certain number of tickets to "break even" on the show and that the 'house' and 'sound mixer' had to be paid from those ticket sales also. My question was how were they going to divide the money when 3 bands were selling tickets both in advance and at the door, (which was never answered).

Now, realizing this is a pay to play venue, I discussed it with the band and we decided to give it a chance just to see how it all panned out only because it is a high profile venue. So we played the gig. We'd sold all our tickets and the place was packed with familiar faces of our fans along with fans of the other bands. And despite the first band opening the show with a painfully loud set of death metal and nearly clearing the room, the crowd came back for our set of Americana and we had a good time playing for a very enthusiastic audience. The bar was as busy as it could handle.

After our set we quickly rolled our gear off stage so the next band could get started and I loaded out and headed home. All in all it felt like a very successful gig.

A few days later, after the dust had settled on the ticket sales, our BL told he us he had to pay up to settle the money, even though we had a full house and the bar obviously made good money that night. Turned out that the booking company also took 50% of the ticket sales along with the house and sound guy taking their cut. WTH?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Pay to Play venues are in business to support themselves and not the musicians. For the bands it's a total BS deal. We hauled our gear there, loaded in, set up in a flash, played a great set to a full house, loaded out, and hauled it home covered with sweat, and someone made lots of money, but we had to pay them to settle the bottom line. Kinda makes me feel like I got taken in an internet scam. If these venues can't afford to pay the bands to play then why are they in the music presentation business to begin with? Oh I know...to sell lots of booze. Hard language inserted here.

Never Again.

I've done a couple of those in the past. The first booking company wouldn't give us a fixed slot for our set, so we couldn't really promote the show properly. In fact, we had to draw from a hat for slots on the day of the gig. This didn't include the fact that we were given a ridiculous load in time 5 hours in front of the gig and had no place to put our stuff when we arrived. Then they had the nerve to be asses and complain about ticket sales not only for us but the other acts.

The second one booked us well in advance. About 3 weeks before the show, my drummer was hospitalized for nearly 2 months. We told the agent well in advance that we wouldn't be able to do the gig. She insisted that we do it without a drummer (my regular subs were already booked BTW), and when I said no, she said she'd never book us again.

The pay for play model is a scam, but I also understand why it continues to thrive.