Double Bass New Acoustic Image 'DOUBLESHOT'

[Ric Vice]

While that is true, the dispersion of sound is entirely different. It's my feeling (I'm not a technical person) that there was a great deal of loss with the down firing 10" that was
part of the 10/2' system, because it was dependent on the surface it was firing into. Thus, if you're firing that down facing 10" inch onto a hardwood stage with good acoustics
the sound from that speaker will reflect differently of that surface than it does into the carpet of a banquet hall. The Double Shot doesn't have the same issues because it
fires to the side not down. Just my impressions, but having listened to both, in the same hall the Double Shot is louder and clearer.

 

[jmlee]

The max SPL spec is the same for both speakers: >118dB.

I wonder where you'd be to measure those numbers...with the Ten 2 firing into the floor and forward, and the DoubleShot firing side-to-side/mid forward.

 

[bassically_eli]

I wonder where you'd be to measure those numbers...with the Ten 2 firing into the floor and forward, and the DoubleShot firing side-to-side/mid forward.

They both just say 1m, and I would assume right in front on axis with the forward firing speaker for the Ten2. For the DoubleShot, that's a good question. The forward speaker points up, so is it on axis with speaker, or on an axis parallel to the ground? Probably doesn't matter much either way in terms of max SPL. I think we're venturing into the dispersion category, and as Rick pointed out, that's where the DoubleShot is reportedly a huge improvement. Plus it's half the weight!

 

[Wasnex]

The max SPL spec is the same for both speakers: >118dB.

?? FYI, the Ten2 manual specs max SPL as 116dB.

 

[bassically_eli]

From the S4Plus manual

 

[Wasnex]

From the S4Plus manual

Love it when a company's documents have internal conflicts. See page 11 of the attached Ten2 manual, it's on page 7 of the PDF.

 

[Ric Vice]

It happens quite often, the Headway EDB-2 still has an error in the Meg Ohm load for Bass, Guitar and Violin it's right in the index but wrong in the manuals description of the switch.

 

[bassically_eli]

Well, technically, 118 is greater than 116...

 

[Ric Vice]

Acoustic Image, Euphonic Audio, Duke Lejune, and Mike Arnopol have really taken a serious look at the problems bassist encounter with traditional front firing cabinets. The issue is that you really need to be of axis from
the cabinet in order to hear and not feed back. For the past 30 years or so the industry had built bigger and better cabinets for EB while totally ignoring that Double Bass speakers have to be built from entirely different
models. EA has the Transmission Line cabinets (think Bose Wave Radio) Acoustic Image has the Double Shot, Duke Lejune has the TC 112 with a stellar crossover and specially designed horn that disperses on two different axis.
MAS has developed cabinets that use a manipulated wave vortex. They all sound great.

 

[brianrost]

I had an email exchange with Rick a few weeks ago about how to use the DS like a combo, head permanently attached and wired up. He gave a very detailed response about options and at the end reminded me we had spoken over a decade ago back in the series II era before I bought my Coda sIII. How many mfrs can you name who remember your name when you contact them?

 

[jmlee]

I had an email exchange with Rick a few weeks ago about how to use the DS like a combo, head permanently attached and wired up. He gave a very detailed response about options and at the end reminded me we had spoken over a decade ago back in the series II era before I bought my Coda sIII. How many mfrs can you name who remember your name when you contact them?

Wow! My family can't even do that...

 

[OogieWaWa]

Wow, very interested in this, the perfect answer for not hefting my big cabs for wineries and such (15# vs 27#, 46# or 68# depending.) And I've already got the Clarus SL 4plus as my normal gigging amp.

And since it will do 2 Ohms and we do play bigger places, something like this could easily be made for a second one. One coupled to the floor, the other up in the air a bit, one 5" facing out and one facing me. Same footprint; hmmmm...

(And I am from the 'other side', but I do stand my de-fretted Mexican P up on my stool and slap it around like an UB for a few rockabilly songs each night, does that count any? People have told me that it sounds about as much like an upright as any electric they've ever heard.)

 

[OogieWaWa]

Or a pair of H-frames of lap-jointed 3/4x3/4 white oak, joined by a couple of removable but snug shoulder dowels, with squiggly rubber feet on the ends. Could be used as either a floor support or a stacking 'tweener', would break down for transport.

Yeah, now I 'm thinking too much.

 

[Ric Vice]

Or a pair of H-frames of lap-jointed 3/4x3/4 white oak, joined by a couple of removable but snug shoulder dowels, with squiggly rubber feet on the ends. Could be used as either a floor support or a stacking 'tweener', would break down for transport.
View attachment 3617794
Yeah, now I 'm thinking too much.

........ And I've already got the Clarus SL 4plus as my normal gigging amp.

And since it will do 2 Ohms and we do play bigger places, something like this could easily be made for a second one. One coupled to the floor, the other up in the air a bit, one 5" facing out and one facing me. Same footprint; hmmmm...

View attachment 3617649

(And I am from the 'other side', but I do stand my de-fretted Mexican P up on my stool and slap it around like an UB for a few rockabilly songs each night, does that count any? People have told me that it sounds about as much like an upright as any electric they've ever heard.)

When you say coupled do you mean pointed toward the floor or do you mean sitting on the floor? I like my Lakland 55-20 Lined Fretless and it does sound great, but since I play Double Bass, I'll have to say the sound is "close but no cigar". One other small caveat, sometimes different ohm speaker

loads, will change what the cabinet sounds like. For example, the 8 ohm VL 208 I owned came in a 4 ohm version. John Dong said that the 4 ohm was a lot darker sounding, than the 8 ohm, something you might want to consider. Also, when you set those two side firing speakers on top of one another.

the top speakers coverage area will bleed over into the bottom speaker. I have no idea what that will sound like. So, I'd try it first. Just my take. Experimenting is fun as long as it works.

 

[OogieWaWa]

When you say coupled do you mean pointed toward the floor or do you mean sitting on the floor?

Sitting. Having the cab not directly sitting on the floor, but elevated a few inches, breaks the floor from being part of the cabinet dynamic surfaces, I guess you could say. Just like raising any other cabinet does.

And I meant them stacked like wine barrels in their cradles, one directly on top of the other, all speakers facing "out". It would look like an 8 from the sides.

 

[Wasnex]

Having the cab not directly sitting on the floor, but elevated a few inches. It breaks the floor from being part of the cabinet dynamic surfaces, I guess you could say. Just like raising any other cabinet does.

And I meant them stacked like wine barrels in their cradles, one directly on top of the other, all speakers facing "out". Looks like an 8 from the sides.

Elevating the cab wont break interaction with the floor, but it will modify the interaction. With the cab on the floor you get half space loading. When you elevate the cab you get boundary effect; basically cancellation from the floor bounce. The max cancellation occurs at the distance equal to 1/4 wavelength.

Likewise, placing the speakers together gets you perfect coupling across the range in which spacing of the drivers is within approximately 1/4 wavelength.

Speaker Placement 101: Is Speaker-Boundary Interference Killing Your Bass?
Acoustical Space (Free-field, Half-space, Quarter-space, and One-eighth-space)

 

[Ric Vice]

Sitting. Having the cab not directly sitting on the floor, but elevated a few inches, breaks the floor from being part of the cabinet dynamic surfaces, I guess you could say. Just like raising any other cabinet does.

And I meant them stacked like wine barrels in their cradles, one directly on top of the other, all speakers facing "out". It would look like an 8 from the sides.

Got it, that's an interesting idea. I'd email Rick Jones at Acoustic Image, (he's easy to talk to) and ask him about this configuration. The Double Shots do sit on the floor, but since the speakers fire to the side and not down

you can definitely elevate them. They had the one Ron Carter used on the stage at Indiana University very high off the stage, almost at Ron's ear level, with plenty of low end coming of the amp. I'm more concerned about

the potentlally different sound you'll get with two of them when the dispersion of the top speaker interacts with the one below it several feet out from the cabinet.

 

[OogieWaWa]

I think it would also be interesting to have one sitting on top of my Eden E112XST, midrange firing forward. It might be ideal for the larger wineries and other places where we do mostly acoustic and softer material. I'd still bring out the big guns for the bigger and more robust material venues.

Since the 12 is 8 Ohms, each large driver would get about the same amount of power. The dispersion of the bass would be a bit focused to the direction of the audience vs. evenly dispersed, and the higher frequencies would also be mostly forward. My only concern would be one of the DoubleShot drivers being pointed directly at our drummer's noggin, although it would eliminate the current need to cant my cabs towards him and the guitar player so they can hear the bass. Both are to my right.

*sigh* Great, now I guess I'll have to put off getting that new Hofner early next year.

 

[OogieWaWa]

I'm more concerned about

the potentlally different sound you'll get with two of them when the dispersion of the top speaker interacts with the one below it several feet out from the cabinet.

I'm not so sure that it would be that much different than stacking any other pair of cabinets. There's always some interaction.

 

[Wasnex]

I think it would also be interesting to have one sitting on top of my Eden E112XST, midrange firing forward. It might be ideal for the larger wineries and other places where we do mostly acoustic and softer material. I'd still bring out the big guns for the bigger and more robust material venues.

Since the 12 is 8 Ohms, each large driver would get about the same amount of power. The dispersion of the bass would be a bit focused to the direction of the audience vs. evenly dispersed, and the higher frequencies would also be mostly forward. My only concern would be one of the DoubleShot drivers being pointed directly at our drummer's noggin, although it would eliminate the current need to cant my cabs towards him and the guitar player so they can hear the bass. Both are to my right.

*sigh* Great, now I guess I'll have to put off getting that new Hofner early next year.

IMHO the problem will most likely be the drastically different Sensitivity ratings of the Eden and Doubleshot. I don't believe Sensitivity is listed for either, but max SPL for 118dB at 600W puts the calculated Sensitivity of the Doubleshot around 90dB W/m. All of the Edens I have ever checked had a very high Sensitivity rating.

It doesn't hurt to try them together, but you may not be thrilled with the results.