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Double Bass New basses by independent builders vs. old basses

#121
Uncletoad said:
That's still not a bass thing. That's a string and setup thing. I'd wager Mittels would have cleaned that right up. Light strings down low on a boomy bass is gonna sound pretty boomy.
Click to expand...

String height will boominess and definition. If the action is too low the bass will sound and play fine arco, but be muddy sounding played pizz. But an even larger contributor could be the position of the soundpost.
 
#124
Uncletoad said:
That's still not a bass thing. That's a string and setup thing.
Click to expand...

You can certainly tweak the sound of a bass with different strings and set up parameters, but it seems to me you're not going to change the basic character of a bass' sound this way. A bright French bass is not going to sound like a dark Italian bass. It's not like dialing in tone on a slab. Each instrument has its own distinct sound based mainly on its construction, I think.

Maybe different strings or sound post position would have helped the Italian bass I mentioned work better on a jazz recording, but I don't think subtle changes would have made a big difference. This was one instance when a line from a bridge pickup would have helped get some needed definition in the bass sound, but the bassist is a purist and wouldn't go that route. That is just one big, dark sounding bass!
 
#125
I got a surprisingly present sound out of my big bass last couple of times in the studio. In Dave Martin's place, he had an old RCA ribbon mic on the f hole and a Neumann on the fingerboard. Sits nice atop the mix in the CD. In a recent session in a smaller studio, I had a fairly run-of-the-mill Sennheiser on the F and had the Underwood plugged into the board for more focus. Another nice sounding track, more modern style sound. Jim Ferguson likes to this as well with his big Hawkes.

Ike
 
#126
ehochberg said:
You can certainly tweak the sound of a bass with different strings and set up parameters, but it seems to me you're not going to change the basic character of a bass' sound this way. A bright French bass is not going to sound like a dark Italian bass. It's not like dialing in tone on a slab. Each instrument has its own distinct sound based mainly on its construction, I think.
Click to expand...

Based on my experience, solely with my instrument, soundpost placement can make a bass sound like a different instrument. Maybe it won't make a bass sound like an old Italian bass, but it's very much like adjusting bass amp knobs or the tone knob on an EB.
 
#127
Where was the mic positioned? That can play a big role in getting piz deffinition out of a dark bass while recording.

My Prescott can have that too big & dark thing in the studio only when the mic is positioned too low down or right in front of the 'f' hole. When using one mic I get the best sound when the it is placed at bridge level or a bit higher, pointed at the top between the bridge and 'f'.

Just did a recording like this and even w/ darker Evah Pirazzi's on the bass it had plenty of great piz deffinition.

Once on engineer got an incredible sound on this bass by putting one mic in the position described above and a second higher up, actually catching some fingerboard sound.

But, I know what ehochberg means about too big and thick for the mix. This has happened to me as well when the engineer didn't know how to handle it.

As for hi end basses that perhaps didn't have as good a piz sound read my post #14 here about comparing 'apples to apples' when I was bass shopping.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=387159

BG
 
#128
bribass said:
Where was the mic positioned? That can play a big role in getting piz deffinition out of a dark bass while recording.


Once on engineer got an incredible sound on this bass by putting one mic in the position described above and a second higher up, actually catching some fingerboard sound.

But, I know what ehochberg means about too big and thick for the mix. This has happened to me as well when the engineer didn't know how to handle it.
BG
Click to expand...

Just for reference, this was not an amateur or semi-pro situation but a full professional production for a major label at a state of the art studio with state of the art people. We tried different mics, mic placements and the use of two mics as described above. I've done over 1000 sessions myself on double bass so I have a pretty good concept of this, having worked at many studios with many engineers and producers. All double basses are different and may require different techniques and equipment to record optimally. There really was no "handling it" except for the work it took to tame it in the mixing sessions.

Bribass, I hope to hear you on your Prescott sometime.:)
 
#130
Getting back to the original post, if you are a crusty old luddite who is primarily concerned with the historic label and a certain tonal response, then a vintage instrument is where you should be looking. If you have other needs, then a new builder is a good choice for you. I think that the main thing to remember about commissioning a new build is that you have endless options with a new comission.

Some people spend a lot of time dreaming up new ideas that they would like to see in their bass- side ports, access panels, Savador Dali assymetric body shapes, different string and neck configurations. If that is what you are after, almost all of us would agree that you shouldn't experiment on a nice historic instrument, even if you've found someone both capable and willing to do the work. Go to a custom builder, that is where they can make a huge difference to you.

I spend a LOT of time trying to explain to folks that if you want a Prescott, then go buy one. Don't buy a Shen and be dissapointed that it sounds like a Shen. You don't go over to Ken Smith's shop looking for a low budget Fender. You go there for all things beyond a Fender with Ken's sound and aesthetic.

In the long run, all of us would get a lot more out of two hours a day more practice time than we would out of spending a lot more money for a new (to us) instrument and still playing the same old chops on it....turn off your computer and start playing your bass more.

j.
www.condino.com
 
#131
I'm about to embark on a short bass reconnaissance mission. I'm going to look at several things from the Land of Cows to NYC.

I'll try to describe my process as I go along.
 

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